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Plans for?

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old

09-01-2005 12:20:38




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Any got plans for a still and or metane gas plant. I know I have enough sh!t to run a car for a lot time on metane but no way to compress it with out plans




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Keith-OR

09-01-2005 20:11:42




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 Re: Plans for? in reply to old, 09-01-2005 12:20:38  
Hey Old, here is something very interesting for you...Keith



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old

09-02-2005 08:52:04




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 Re: Plans for? in reply to Keith-OR, 09-01-2005 20:11:42  
Thanks. Just wish I could print that out but seems like it will not let me. Any ideas on how I can print that or get a copy of it. Sounds like it wouldn't be very hard to set something like that up to run and engine and then have it power a genny



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Keith-Or

09-01-2005 16:34:35




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 Re: Plans for? in reply to old, 09-01-2005 12:20:38  
Forgot to put down link...Keith



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Keith-OR

09-01-2005 16:26:12




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 Re: Plans for? in reply to old, 09-01-2005 12:20:38  
Old, here is some info on making ethanol..Very interesting reading. Mother Earth mag. had plans for "still" to produce ethanol. I have ME website some where will see if I can find it...HTH Keith



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Mother Earth Mag.

09-01-2005 16:31:15




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 Re: Plans for? in reply to Keith-OR, 09-01-2005 16:26:12  
Here you go Old shold beable to find what you need...Keith



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Hal/WA

09-01-2005 14:50:39




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 Re: Plans for? in reply to old, 09-01-2005 12:20:38  
The Mother Earth News magazine had several articles about making methane from manure and other organic wastes. I don't remember just when those articles ran, but I think it was probably back in the 70's, when TMEN was really a "back to the land" and self sufficiency magazine.

I think that the old issues of TMEN are available, probably on ebay, and I think they also may be available on CD or DVD from the people who now publish TMEN. They also may have an index on CD that would be a lot easier to use to locate the articles than digging through a whole bunch of magazines. If I tried that, I would undoubtedly get sidetracked reading something else I found that interested me! It is too bad that TMEN now is just another "country" and econut magazine.....

As I remember it, the important part of collecting the gas was to do it in such a way that no air or oxygen got mixed with it, as that would make the methane potentially explosive. One way of doing this was to have a chamber floating on the slurry that would catch the rising bubbles of methane, and as the chamber filled up, it would float higher and higher, slightly pressurizing the methane inside.

It would take quite a large digestor to produce enough methane to consider using it in a vehicle. In the early 80's an agency I worked for experimented with using natural gas (which is almost all methane) to power a full sized Chevrolet car. To do this, a special natural gas "carb" was added to the 350 V8 engine and special high pressure tanks that looked like welding tanks virtually filled the trunk. The gasoline equipment was retained and there were various valves, regulators and piping involved in the system. The system worked, but the car had much less power using natural gas and the tanks only had enough natural gas capacity to go a little over 50 miles. And since the only place to go to get the very high pressure natural gas was the gas company, the people who used that car thought that it wasted a whole lot of time for them and usually ended up running on the easily available gasoline. There also was some concern as to what might happen in a bad collision, considering the very high pressures inside the tanks. The experiment was judged to be a failure overall, and no other vehicles were converted to natural gas.

I was not directly involved with that experiment, and do not know just what kind of equipment was used to make the Chevy run. I did drive it a few times and the Chevy felt like it had about half as much power using natural gas as it did using gasoline. I doubt that the engine was modified internally at all. Maybe with higher compression or a more sophisticated fuel system, the natural gas would have done better. I have driven machines that ran on propane that seemed to run great.

The problem of pressurizing the natural gas (or methane) is a tough one. I was told that the gas company spent many thousands of dollars to get set up to pressurize natural gas for vehicle use. I don't know if they are still using the system. I would think it would have to have a BUNCH of safeguards to prevent escape and potential explosion or ignition of the natural gas.

Maybe a dairy, feed lot or hog farm would generate enough manure to justify collecting methane on a large scale, and building the waste handling system with that in mind. I think that some municipal sewage systems collect the methane from their digestors and use it to produce heat in other stages of the process. In Spokane, they sometimes burn off sewage gas above the sewage treatment plant--I have seen it.

With all the media attention about global warming and how much methane makes that worse, maybe you could get some kind of a government grant to study the possibilities of collecting an using methane that otherwise would escape to the air. I am not kidding--I have heard of large grants being given for things that are a whole lot less practical.

Good luck. An interesting subject!

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Ludwig

09-01-2005 13:22:09




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 Re: Plans for? in reply to old, 09-01-2005 12:20:38  
Some time ago there was a guy on the net who was using cow manure and grass clippings to make methane which he then used for heating and cooking fuel. I think he was in New Zealand, I've never been able to find his site again. The guy was a great writer and I spend an afternoon spellbound. Should have bookmarked it.

Same guy used to get old car batteries from the junkyard, cut out the shorted cells and wire the good cells together... Pretty cool.

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RustyFarmall

09-01-2005 12:51:14




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 Re: Plans for? in reply to old, 09-01-2005 12:20:38  
I thought you were from down in the Ozarks? Surely you know an oldtimer that knows how to make corn squeezin's? LOL.



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old

09-01-2005 13:32:00




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 Re: Plans for? in reply to RustyFarmall, 09-01-2005 12:51:14  
Most of them are long gone for one of a couple reasons. They is 6 foot under or they had to run or there still in jail LOL



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Tim...Ok

09-01-2005 13:01:50




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 Re: Plans for? in reply to RustyFarmall, 09-01-2005 12:51:14  
Anybody that goes by "old" from the ozarks,surely knows how to make a little shine..hehehe

Tim



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old

09-01-2005 13:33:07




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 Re: Plans for? in reply to Tim...Ok, 09-01-2005 13:01:50  
Nope I sure don't but if I did I would probably have one set up right now.



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Gerry Cent. Mi.

09-01-2005 15:04:18




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 Re: Plans for? in reply to old, 09-01-2005 13:33:07  
The dump outside Lansing, Mi. is plumbed for methane collection. A company named Granger pumps it out and feeds several large engines that generate electricty which is sold to the power company. They have been doing it for about 30 years.



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RN

09-01-2005 19:02:41




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 Re: Plans for? in reply to Gerry Cent. Mi., 09-01-2005 15:04:18  
Madison , Wisconsin - paper had article about 3 months back about generator running off local sewer gas. The power company and sewer people were getting 4 new units with a 8 year life expectancy before rebuild to get another 5 years. Previous 2 generators tested had lasted the 8 years and were getting replaced/rebuilt/upgraded controls. The experiment was economicly a success. Milwaukee was noted to have basicly same type of generators- can't remember how many. Price was about 2 million $ for new units? something in that area if I remember right. Note that Generac -manufacturers of electrical generators is in Wisconsin.

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