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OT-Fed Up!!!

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Illinois Boy

07-08-2005 07:05:04

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Ok...
How come our Congress can regulate everything from prescription drugs to cable television- but their hands are tied when it comes to an affordable price for gasoline and diesel?

I've been told that, because EPA regulations are so unforgiving, a number of small refineries had to close their doors because it was not profitable for them to revamp their operation to meet the standards. The same person told me that there are only 5 or 6 big refineries left, producing fuel from crude oil.

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Paul in Mich

07-09-2005 19:42:37

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Re: OT-Fed Up!!! in reply to Illinois Boy, 07-08-2005 07:05:04

One of the contributing problems is that the government does indeed regulate the price of gasolene. It is regulated by Federal E.P.A. standards in addition to 50 different state standards, which has created nothing short of a nightmare for refineries. Before blaming the "greedy oil companies" for the high cost of fuel, ask yourself just one question. Would you like to be the owner of a refinery and try to satisfy the demand for fuel and try to make a profit and have to deal with the restrictive regulations and taxes imposed by the government? And just for everyones edification, the problem didnt start with the Bush administration. It has been an ongoing process which has been plaguing the American public for over 30 years. Now having said all that, you"re still better off buying a gallon of gasolene or diesel fuel in the United States than anywhere else on the planet. The reason os that while our government"s meddling has exaserbated the fuel crisis here in the U.S., governments elsewhere in the world have been more meddlsome and have regulated and taxed fuel to a far greater extent than our own government wizards. To wish for more government regulation is like wishing for external help in adjusting your noose just prior to lynching. It really isnt help at all. The government is incapable of running a lemonade stand let alone the oil business. The best thing any of us could ever hope for is that government got out of the energy business altogether, and allow market forces (supply and demand) to do its work. Only then will you or I have a say in the price of fuel. The sad truth, however, is that once the genie is out of the bottle, and it is in regards to government intervention in the energy business, it will never correct itself.

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Rustyj14

07-09-2005 18:37:03

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Re: OT-Fed Up!!! in reply to Illinois Boy, 07-08-2005 07:05:04

Well, folks holler about the price of gasoline, which here in my area is $2.31.9 for Regular, per gallon! how far will that take you in yer pickem-up truck, at 60 mph? Well, an average is 16 miles or so! Maybe a little more. so you drive 3 miles to yer favorite bar to get a 12 ounce bottle of beer! How far will 2 bottles (24 ounces) get ya?? 30 feet to the men's room! And nobody complains about that! by: Rustyj

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Rustyj14

07-09-2005 18:40:51

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Re: OT-Fed Up!!! in reply to Rustyj14, 07-09-2005 18:37:03

Oh, i forgot to mention the price of the beer per bottle! It's $2.50 for 12 ounces! Go figure--- by: RJ

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greenbeanman in Kansas

07-09-2005 09:16:08

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Your last vehicle purchase in reply to Illinois Boy, 07-08-2005 07:05:04

When you made your last vehicle purchase in what order did you rank the following:

Price
Resale value
Dependability
Usability
Comfort
Looks
Fuel economy

How did your friends, relatives, and neighbors rank the above items when purchasing their last vehicle?

How many members in your family drive, are trips ALWAYS combined to save on the number made even if a little more inconvenient? Example, husband/wife taking one vehicle to work, then waiting to be picked up after work instead of driving a second vehicle for convenience.

If Americans quit wasting so much fuel in favor a little more inconvenience then I would think that there is a problem.

NOPE, keep government out of the issue. Why do you think farmers can't get more for their grain? Government. No truly free market to other countries and a cheap food policy.

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j cook (iowa)

07-09-2005 08:07:30

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I have a plan! in reply to Illinois Boy, 07-08-2005 07:05:04

Let's ration Gasoline and diesel fuel to members of Congress AND anyone who works for them!

Anytime that gasoline is priced ABOVE $2.00/ gal, All Representatives, Senators, their families and employees, are allowed NO GASOLINE OR DIESEL at all!

For gasoline prices $1.80 to $1.999, they are allowed to buy five gallons per week.

For gasoline prices $1.60 to $1.799, they are allowed to purchase TEN gallons per week!

If Congress can keep fuel prices BELOW $1.60/gal, then they can purchase all that they "need" themselves!

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jmoore@pasty,net

07-09-2005 05:52:36

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Re: OT-Fed Up!!! in reply to Illinois Boy, 07-08-2005 07:05:04

PEOPLE,People- Don't worry your government Will take care of you.

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07-08-2005 19:22:45

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Re: OT-Fed Up!!! in reply to Illinois Boy, 07-08-2005 07:05:04

Congress can't regulate everything and the International price of crude is one of them.You want to see fireworks wait till crude stops being priced in U.S. dollars.You want oil,you pay cause the U.S.A. DOESN'T have what it takes anymore.

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Amazing ....

07-08-2005 17:53:54

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Re: OT-Fed Up!!! in reply to Illinois Boy, 07-08-2005 07:05:04

It always amazes me that so many people (maybe not yourself) spend $45000 on a gas-guzzling monster, and then they complain about the cost of running it. Buy small and drive less, there is no other solution. And for heavens sake, we've got to quit blaming everyone else from the oil companies to China. Basic economics still applies (check out any 100-year-old text on economics). Prices are set by supply and demand, and in the case of oil it's the demand. We are consuming energy at a phenomenal rate so what would you expect, low prices on a commodity that is in high demand?

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Davis In SC

07-08-2005 18:29:56

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Re: OT-Fed Up!!! in reply to Amazing ...., 07-08-2005 17:53:54

I see your point, but let's turn it around... If grain prices shot sky -high, Would people justify it as supply & demand??? No... there would be some kind of controls put in place...

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Old Pokey

07-08-2005 22:43:35

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Re: OT-Fed Up!!! in reply to Davis In SC, 07-08-2005 18:29:56

First you have to get grain prices to shoot sky high. Grain is renewable and can be grown in one form or another all around the world. Untill you get the organization of all the growers together like the oil companies have, you'll never see the price of grain get high enough make a difference. As soon as grain is used to make fuel in high enough quantity to lower the demand of crude oil, the price of oil will lower bringing down the price of grain once again.

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wdtom

07-08-2005 17:13:19

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Re: OT-Fed Up!!! in reply to Illinois Boy, 07-08-2005 07:05:04

High prices for energy are the peoples own fault. To start with back in the 70s whether or not the energy shortages were real or contrived it should have been a wake-up. It wasn't. In a few years people were back to driving gas guzzlers, building energy in-efficient houses and all that. And what of population. If we had 150 million people in this country as we had not so long ago our energy use would be half of what 300 million people use. People have gone on wasting energy and increaseing the population for no good reason. Now they (we) are paying.

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tlak

07-08-2005 13:44:36

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Re: OT-Fed Up!!! in reply to Illinois Boy, 07-08-2005 07:05:04

China's oil use is comparable to France/Italy. Their main energy consumption is coal for power plants. Our high prices for gas are whatever the news media and speculators want to blame it on this week. The latest blame was the hurricane. I've talked to locals that said the oil companies wouldn't pick up the crude and even want to store more. I think are main problem is refineries. Why hasn't there been a congressional investigation into the refineries?
I think the trade balance with China will change in the next few years. China has 1/4 of the world population and 7% of the farm land. Their industries are making a major demand on their water resources so they have a water shortage. Their water is routed to who can make the most money with. The size of the farms in China are not bigger than an acre so these acre farms feed X-number of people but a factory can make X-thousands of dollars with the same water. So in the near future we will be feeding most of China.
So right now all I think China is, is somebody to blame the price gouging on done by our own fuel companies.

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fred43

07-08-2005 13:32:32

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Re: OT-Fed Up!!! in reply to Illinois Boy, 07-08-2005 07:05:04

Took em serious back in 1974. Heat my house with firewood ever since, I saved about $30,000 over the years. I like it so much I would never go back to oil or propane.

I am seriously invested in ethonal, and have used it enough to know its ok.

I raise most of my own food right on my 220 acres.

Drive road vehicles that get over 30 miles per gallon. I would go for 50 mpg if I could find a local dealer. If gas prices go high enough maybe I will not have to worry about getting killed by one of those showoff, monster,and useless pickups I see on the road.

I have most of the parts and know-how and I am ready to put up a sizable wind generator.

Oil prices. YAWN!

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Joe in Minnie

07-08-2005 13:09:01

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Re: OT-Fed Up!!! in reply to Illinois Boy, 07-08-2005 07:05:04

HOW COME ???? BECAUSE CONGRESS IS IN BED WIIH THE OIL REFINERIES..... .....

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Jacko

07-08-2005 12:51:10

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Re: OT-Fed Up!!! in reply to Illinois Boy, 07-08-2005 07:05:04

Scheechss!~ did you step on a hornets nest!! The buzz was interesting though! Wonder if anybody got stung!

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Redmud

07-08-2005 12:40:48

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Re: OT-Fed Up!!! in reply to Illinois Boy, 07-08-2005 07:05:04

And you think you have problems. Here in Texas, they want to stick a toll on our major hiways. We already pay a tax at the pump to drive on these roads. And no! they have no intention of removing the tax at the pump. And if they get-r-done here in Texas, rest of ye better watch out.. Oh!!! this is how much land they plan on taking from the land owners here in Texas. 580,000 acres, 908 square miles....And there is a much bigger picture..

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Tim(nj)

07-08-2005 14:24:07

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Re: OT-Fed Up!!! in reply to Redmud, 07-08-2005 12:40:48

Been there, done that already up here in Jersey . . . .

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Tom Yasnowski

07-08-2005 10:13:57

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Re: OT-Fed Up!!! in reply to Illinois Boy, 07-08-2005 07:05:04

There's nothing nefarious going on here, just supply and demand. If more demand than supply, price goes up. China has been taking huge amounts of oil and steel. Oil is a commodity like anything else. If corn should ever get to
$10 a bushel in the commodity market I doubt there would be few complainers here. Yes there are other factors contributing it as well, but supply and demand is the greatest. If an alternative fuel can be made significantly cheaper and utilized effectively the market forces will take ovver

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ChadS

07-08-2005 11:56:07

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Re: OT-Fed Up!!! in reply to Tom Yasnowski, 07-08-2005 10:13:57

Yep, a dog pees on a gas pump, gas gotta go up 25 cents to have haz mat to come clean it up. Holidays, goes up another dime, weekends, goes up a quarter, bin laden farts in the usa direction, gas jumps a buck! Ehh price gouging if ya ask me. gotta pay for a war somehow. supply and demand does not go up and down that darn much in a period of a week or two. Least, not around here. Heck, some stations have gas wars,, sell it for 1.85 sometimes seen that about 100 times round northern Indiana, how can they do that, then 2 hours later its higher than it was before the specialty price was enacted. Better hitch up the horse n buggy cause its gonna get worse. Im not up on why the government "says" why prices are going up, But you bet that horse, that they can do something about it, they wont cause its making so much money off the little guys. HA Diesil?? how can a byproduct of gasoline be more expencive than the main product??? I know why,,, cause of all the trucking companies that use it, there is a capitol gain right there,, over a million trucks on the roads these days, and you think about how much $$$ tha can bring in a week to a gas company, or the government. Suppy aint no different, just whomevers pocket it all goes in. Giddy up horsey!! Imagine if we all rode our horses to work, parked the cars n trucks for a week, and did not buy that gas or diesil for 2.35 for gas, and 2.50 for diesil. Youd see the price of a horse go up, but I bet there would be some funny law written to tax the poop that goes on the road,,, is this taxation without representation,,, I dunno. I dont care if someone dont like what I wrote here just now,, here in the country side,, we just wanna getto work, pay the bills, feed the kids, and maybe,, just maybe,, have enough pennies left over to take those kids to Mcdonalds for a .75$ cheeseburger. and Mybe, have a dollar left over to buy a beer, cant do that most places cause the beer is a $1.25. Sorry for venting,, but then again, Im not. ChadS

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I agree with you Chad

07-10-2005 09:46:28

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Re: OT-Fed Up!!! in reply to ChadS, 07-08-2005 11:56:07

I understand the economics of supply/demand of the old days. But,in todays world,supply/demand is "created" for price gougeing purposes/proffits. 8 years of oil people in the white house. What do you think? Wake up people,it's not rocket science.

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Mike M

07-08-2005 09:35:36

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Re: OT-Fed Up!!! in reply to Illinois Boy, 07-08-2005 07:05:04

Wasn't it back in the 70's there was all that trade a bushel for a barrel talk ? That would really of made things interesting !

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Matt from CT

07-08-2005 08:27:09

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Re: OT-Fed Up!!! in reply to Illinois Boy, 07-08-2005 07:05:04

There may be only 5 or 6 **refiners** but they have a lot more refinerIES than that!

And I'd place more blame on the shutting down of the smaller refineries at the foot of the industry consolidation than at environmental regulations.

Both have a share no doubt...but I don't think the industry shed many tears when they look at the situation and go, "Damn, we'll have to close plants and reduce capacity and raise prices and have less competetion!"

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Texas Proud

07-08-2005 09:59:46

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Re: OT-Fed Up!!! in reply to Matt from CT, 07-08-2005 08:27:09

The states that let the wacko enviornmentalists set policy and restrict or deny oil companies the right to explore should pay the penalty for their arrogance. What makes the beaches of the East Coast or California or Oregon so g##da#n special over the coastlines of Texas or Louisiana? We keep the North from freezing in the winter, and cool in the summer, and they don't want drilling ANYWHERE in the country, and they don't want new refineries to be built, and they pay the same price for their fuel as we do, something is definitely wrong here. The wackos in the left coast loony bin want to take out the hydroelectric dams, and are damned sure against any mention of nuclear power. I am sick and tired of the East taking our oil, our gas, our grain, our coal, and our other natural resources, and giving us nothing but useless rules and regulations (remember the 55 mph speed limit?), or wanting to send their sewage sludge, nuclear waste, or garbage to the West, because they don't want it in their backyard. Hell, they don't even want nuclear power, and why are they no big wind turbine farms in their part of the world, then let them burn their trees to stay warm. They don't call the east, the Rust Belt for nothing, they had their day and their chances, and they failed.

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Steve Crum

07-09-2005 04:07:49

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Re: OT-Fed Up!!! in reply to Texas Proud, 07-08-2005 09:59:46

Better yet, I'm tired of the cold winters digging out of snow drifts and just in general, having to deal with the winter freeze and summer bake. Maybe I can 'export' my butt out of the north and down into your town. My business would do ok in your locale as I ship out most of my goods via USPS, UPS, FedEx etc. I could just buy up a chunk of your prime scenic or producing farm land and develop it by putting up a production building and a house. Add truck traffic and all the other things that come with a new neighbor hood, and you would be screaming about the build up in your former nirvana.

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Texas Proud

07-09-2005 04:47:26

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Re: OT-Fed Up!!! in reply to Steve Crum, 07-09-2005 04:07:49

Nope, Lots of industry around here, more tax base, no downside at all, I seem to remember a huge exodus of BIG business from the Northeast to the South and Southwest a few years back, before continuing on to Mexico and the Far East.
Toyota, Nissan, BMW, etc. must think they are onto something good to build their factories in the South, honest, hard working labor, NO union interference, progressive government which appreciates the investment. Just don't bring your Yankee arrogance and condesencion with you.

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Steve Crum

07-09-2005 11:43:27

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Re: OT-Fed Up!!! in reply to Texas Proud, 07-09-2005 04:47:26

Not a problem,

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JoeMN

07-08-2005 16:17:48

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Re: OT-Fed Up!!! in reply to Texas Proud, 07-08-2005 09:59:46

Well TP, I would like to respond to your discussion of the "North". The diatribe against the east and west coast may be well earned,but thats their turf to defend. You can't get much more North than MN,and maybe our brothers and sisters in ND,IA,and WI could be cosidered North because of our close social and economic ties.You questioned our energy contributions in terms of wind,nuclear,oil refining.Southern MN,especially Buffalo ridge area in SW Mn is aggressively developing wind farms and has been generating for years. Minnesota's two nuclear power plants have set industry records for long runs,efficiency,and short refueling outages.The Prairie Island nuclear plant energizes a high voltage power line that heads straight SOUTH and feeds the grid that is cooling homes in Missouri and south of there right now. Most of rural Minnesota's electricity is from coal mined in the Dakotas and coal fired generators there. While refineries all over the country were closing,Koch in MN was expanding to the point that a major oil pipeline was reversed in order to export refined products to southern states from Canadian crude. What have we sent you? Do the names Minneapolis Moline, Steiger, Oliver, John Deere, Case, Case IH mean anything to you? How about Ford pickup trucks? Jesse Ventura owed allegiance to no politcal party,nor to the press. One of the few duly and truly elected by the people,and an effective governor. We currently have political gridlock,shutting down all non-essential state services since July 1. Paul Wellstone's parents were Jewish refugees from Russia, an insult to call them communist. But come to Minnesota, I would be happy to show you around(not Minneapolis or StPaul). We'll set up the buzz saw and log splitter and you can help lay up some firewood for this winter. And you can enjoy a quiet night's sleep,no air conditioner humming-64 degrees at night.

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Texas Proud

07-09-2005 04:54:20

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Re: OT-Fed Up!!! in reply to JoeMN, 07-08-2005 16:17:48

Sir, you are correct in almost all of your aspects, I SHOULD have been more specific in my comments, as the NORTHEAST has contributed little, but taken much in the last 40 or 50 years. But your attempt to gain sympathy for a "dearly departed" icon of the CPUSA isn't going to cut much ice.

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Vern-MI

07-08-2005 13:33:08

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Re: OT-Fed Up!!! in reply to Texas Proud, 07-08-2005 09:59:46

Do you mean Garbage Chickens (seagulls)? Mount Trashmore will not have any snow on top because it is to warm.

Here in Michigan we have governors that run on the platform that THEY WILL STOP Canadian trash dumping in the US. They win the office and yet nothing is done. OH yah, forgot to mention that the govenor is a Canadian.

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Davis In SC

07-08-2005 14:31:16

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Re: OT-Fed Up!!! in reply to Vern-MI, 07-08-2005 13:33:08

There are some gulls, but there are hundreds of Buzzards. That is just a local joke about the snow...

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Davis In SC

07-08-2005 12:40:48

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Re: OT-Fed Up!!! in reply to Texas Proud, 07-08-2005 09:59:46

Don't feel alone about getting the trash dumped. Here in SC, we get a lot of nuclear waste. There is also a huge landfill here that gets used by many states. We call it Mt. Trashmore... if it gets much higher, it will be capped with snow year round..... ..... Most mountains have Eagles, this one has buzzards.....

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Matt from CT

07-08-2005 11:35:29

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ROFLMAO!!!! in reply to Texas Proud, 07-08-2005 09:59:46

> I am sick and tired of the East taking our >oil, our gas, our grain, our coal, and our >other natural resources, and giving us nothing >but useless rules and regulations

Um...and the cash paid those commodities?

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Texas Proud

07-09-2005 05:05:31

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Re: ROFLMAO!!!! in reply to Matt from CT, 07-08-2005 11:35:29

I believe it is called capitalism, BTW, I have as little stomach for selling our products to the Chinese, as I do selling it to states that contribute nothing when it comes to helping themselves. Yankees were good capitalists when it came to the days of sail, wasn't it sugar cane, molassas, rum, on then off to Africa to engage in the slave trade? Where was all the ethical and moral values there? No, your arrogance is typical of that part of the country, when it comes to looking down your "blue-blood" noses at anything or anyone west of the Appalachians, or south of New YAWK City.

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Matt from CT

07-09-2005 06:25:31

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Re: ROFLMAO!!!! in reply to Texas Proud, 07-09-2005 05:05:31

I was not arrogant.

I am not a blue blood.

Have I wronged you in someway?

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JoeMN

07-08-2005 10:44:35

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Re: OT-Fed Up!!! in reply to Texas Proud, 07-08-2005 09:59:46

Why don't you include everything you sent east, Dick Cheney, G Bush, Tom DeLay. And speaking of failure,how is ENRON doing lately?

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Farmall Don

07-08-2005 07:57:22

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Re: OT-Fed Up!!! in reply to Illinois Boy, 07-08-2005 07:05:04

I hate talking politics here (I like to think this is my sanctuary), but its a supply and demand thing. If you take regulations, demand, production in the middle east, production of refinery, the number of refineries, regulations on refineries, it all comes into play.
I will give you guys a little bit more opinion. If you add in the "new world economy" and (in my opinion third world countries)third world people catching up in technology, the demand for fuel is sky rocketing around the world. Basically the rest of the work is like the U.S. and they want personal automobiles and vehicles to haul goods to improve the quality of life. I can;t blame them. Anyway, this is creating a huge demand for fuel. Environmentalist are stressing over the global impacts, which is leading to the regulations. It a vicious circle and brace yourself for higher crude oil prices. I want to remind you that the U.S. has always been resourceful and will adapt to any situation. Weve done it in the past and we will do it again. These younger generations havent learned that yet, but will be forced to.
This is just my 2 cents.

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Illinois Boy

07-08-2005 08:12:58

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Re: OT-Fed Up!!! in reply to Farmall Don, 07-08-2005 07:57:22

Farmall Don,
You are absolutely right - I should not have asked any question of a political nature. That is NOT what this forum is about and I apologize to all.

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Mike M

07-08-2005 09:42:09

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Re: OT-Fed Up!!! in reply to Illinois Boy, 07-08-2005 08:12:58

I disagree ! I'm glad you brought it up and I think this stuff should be brought up.The main stream media isn't going to get to the bottom of it and try to get answers. Enough little people need to get mad enough and feed up enough to band together and force a change. All I can think of is the Boston tea party,and it high time to take our country back ! from the government.

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paul

07-08-2005 08:38:21

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Re: OT-Fed Up!!! in reply to Illinois Boy, 07-08-2005 08:12:58

Cool. Thanks. :)

The USA actually has kept fuel prices pretty low compared to the rest of the world. It's finally catching up with us, we've kept our use high while, as you correctly point out, some segments have kept our production throttled. Something has to give, & we are still not near what they pay in other countries for fuel.

Our ecconomy will have to adjust. Will be a bumpy few years. A steady higher fuel price will allow us to adjust. Steep ups & downs in fuel prices, or more meddling by the govt to keep prices low - will be bad.

It would be good if the price of gas held where it was for a while. And it should stay at the 2.25 or so level for a while. People will start getting a bit more efficient at this level and allow things to stablize. Should we go to $3 a gallon, then it will cause tougher problems, and a whip effect where our ecconomy goes up & down rapidly. Not so good. Trying to get back to $1.40 gas would prevent any more production within this country, and keep us inneficient, and cause a really bad ecconomic wreck when things finally catch up with us.

So, about $2 gas right now is probably the best thing.....

--->Paul

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Ludwig

07-08-2005 14:13:51

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Re: OT-Fed Up!!! in reply to paul, 07-08-2005 08:38:21

Its gonna wreck the idiots at GM though. Sales of big SUVs are down, so Ford makes hybrid vehicles, looks at small, efficient diesels. Chrysler makes cars again (the Magnums are danged cool). GM restyles the Hummer and its biggest SUVs and gives price breaks. Says "People don't want hybrid vehicles"
Hmm, Lexus brings out a disgustingly expensive hybrid SUV and can't make ENOUGH of them to meet demand... Sure, people don't want hybrids, whatever.

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paul

07-09-2005 17:38:13

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Re: OT-Fed Up!!! in reply to Ludwig, 07-08-2005 14:13:51

This is the second time USA automakers were on the wrong end of the cycle. The Japaneese & many in Europe already make small cars for their 'local' markets, and can quickly get fuel efficient stuff on the market in the USA when consumer demand does it's about-face.

The USA makers always follow the slope upward when consumers want bigger & don't care about milage....

Then poof something happens & everyone wants small & high milage at the same time, & the USA makers are toasted.

--->Paul

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Mike M

07-08-2005 07:46:52

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Re: OT-Fed Up!!! in reply to Illinois Boy, 07-08-2005 07:05:04

We also have plenty of oil here in the USA.We don't even need to drill for it,the wells are allready here !Most just need cleaned and some new parts and they would be good to go.There is some LAW about any wells out of production over a year they have to be capped. Neighbor does this well service for a living and does the capping.He has been very busy ! What a shame.

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peltsi

07-08-2005 07:14:31

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Re: OT-Fed Up!!! in reply to Illinois Boy, 07-08-2005 07:05:04

here in finland 95 octane gasoline costs about 5.5$ per gallon, so i guess you"re still getting your fuel rather cheap

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TomR Ont.

07-08-2005 19:18:16

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Re: OT-Fed Up!!! in reply to peltsi, 07-08-2005 07:14:31

Is that adjusted for the Tax, some countries are more greedy than the Oil export countries.
The more it costs the more tax applied so why would the money hungry governments intervine in the cost of gas or diesel.
About 20 years ago they said if want cheep fuel, switch to diesel now look at the price and more tax.

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big fred

07-08-2005 08:29:07

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Re: OT-Fed Up!!! in reply to peltsi, 07-08-2005 07:14:31

95 octane? The normal choices in the U.S. are 87, 89 and 91 octane. I can get 100 octane racing gas, but it's probably $5-10 a gallon.

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Galen

07-08-2005 07:27:24

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Re: OT-Fed Up!!! in reply to peltsi, 07-08-2005 07:14:31

AH yes! But THAT is part of the problem! People are reminded all the time that "Gas in Japan (or wherever) is $6 a gallon! Concider yourself lucky!" With that mentality, the gas in the US is cheap at today's prices but, if you compare it to prices HERE, it is EXPENSIVE. The price goes up to $2.30 /gal and people squawk, it gets lowered to $1.99 and people THINK it's cheap. The refinery story is a load of you know what. With oil companies posting record profits, somebody has to be pulling our chain.

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n9lhm

07-08-2005 08:37:45

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Re: OT-Fed Up!!! in reply to Galen, 07-08-2005 07:27:24

Exactly. And why does the price of gas go up on Wednesday and back down the following Tuesday? To capitialize on people buying gas for the weekend, I would imagine. And why does gas go up within hours of crude prices going up? You mean to tell me that there is only 3 hours worth of product in the system, and that there is only 3 hours necessary to get the crude through the refineries and to market? Come on. Brian

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Illinois Boy

07-08-2005 08:04:41

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Re: OT-Fed Up!!! in reply to Galen, 07-08-2005 07:27:24

You all make good sense - I need to retract my uninformed question... !!!!!
I just remember my teenage days when the gas wars were on and you could get ethyl for 20 cents a gallon. Of course people only made $5K a year at a good job!!!
I guess it's all a matter of perspective.

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sawtooth

07-08-2005 09:17:51

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Re: OT-Fed Up!!! in reply to Illinois Boy, 07-08-2005 08:04:41

I gotta respond to the "then versus now" comparison. You said you remember times when gas went down to 20 cents a gallon. (about 35 years ago) At the time it was probably 30 cents when there wasn't a gas war. Back then,if you earned 5K a year, that averaged $2.50 an hour on a 40 hour week. That $2.50 would buy 8.5 to 12 gallons of gas an hour at those prices. Our local gas stations today are at $2.38. Multiply that by 8 to 12 gallons an hour. You'd have to be getting paid $20 to $30 an hour to be equal to then. Plus there are many more taxes now to pay. I USED to have a good job- but it was downsized. I now work a part time job for not much more than 2 gallons of gas an hour. 35 years ago that would equate 50 to 60 cents an hour. (I'm glad I'm also getting a pension)

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TimS

07-08-2005 08:44:30

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Re: OT-Fed Up!!! in reply to Illinois Boy, 07-08-2005 08:04:41

You can sum up the reason for the high oil prices in one word:

China

China's economy is starting to boom along with a massive growth in their industrial sector. There was a huge shortage of electrical power for this growth, so a lot of oil powered power plants were built to provide electricity to the new factories, etc. So large amounts of oil that used to be available to everyone else are now going to China to fuel these power plants, trucks, trains, etc.

I don't really feel it is a political discussion, just a supply and demand one. Our government can't do much to change the fact that more folks are wanting oil now then before, due to that the cost of oil will rise and likely keep rising. It recently hit 60 dollars a barrel for crude, that is a new record.

What I keep hoping for is a fuel cell or somesuch technological break thru to relieve our dependence on oil period.

I was in Baghdad, Iraq for 7 months with my national guard unit so with that in mind my feelings are such that if we didn't have such a huge dependence on oil, we wouldn't have to worry so much about the middle east's stability. But with our huge dependence on middle eastern oil, we don't have a choice but to maintain stability there.

New technology will help us get away from oil use eventually, also as the price of oil goes up more domestic wells will be redrilled and will be profitable to use again I think.

( Oops, I ended up in politics again, sorry. )

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paul up at the lake

07-08-2005 12:17:09

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Re: OT-Fed Up!!! in reply to TimS, 07-08-2005 08:44:30

I hear alot of you guys talking about gas prices,crude and the like.food for thought,alternative!I realize everyone quivers at the thought,but we have the brightest minds&the most hope in our own back yard.if the powers to be wont change their thinking,then IT IS UP TO US!we have grown to accustomed to driving up and saying "filler up". this course is disasterous for us and more importantly our children.change is hear to stay,embrace it, love it,get used to it.like any investment the upfront cost seems harsh,but as in any new methodology the end result if managed properly bears fruit 10 fold.get involved.think of the future,i'm not trying to impress any one.IT ONLY MAKES SENSE.the time for revolution is now,revolution of our own resources.

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Matt from CT

07-08-2005 11:39:38

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Re: OT-Fed Up!!! in reply to TimS, 07-08-2005 08:44:30

Add India to China.

And remember, most oil consumed in the U.S. comes from North & South America. Middle East IIRC is under 20%.

It's not our dependency on Middle Eastern oil...it's our dependency on Oil in general. Knock the Middle Eastern supplies to Europe & Aisa off the table, prices for Oil from the Americas/Africa/Former Soviet Union would shoot up.

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Ken Macfarlane

07-08-2005 09:07:52

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Re: OT-Fed Up!!! in reply to TimS, 07-08-2005 08:44:30

With the renewable fuels derived from soybeans, wheat stalks and various other crops, maybe farmers will someday again rise to making a decent living.

Oil companies have been buying huge chunks of farmland without oil reserves below though so I'm sure they will try and squeeze the farmer out of any profit.

Unfortunately companies are doing exactly what they are supposed to do in a free market. Too bad the little guys get hurt every time.

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paul up at the lake

07-08-2005 12:19:59

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Re: OT-Fed Up!!! in reply to Ken Macfarlane, 07-08-2005 09:07:52

ABSOLUTLEY KEN!!!!! !!!

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Lou

07-08-2005 11:58:28

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Re: OT-Fed Up!!! in reply to Ken Macfarlane, 07-08-2005 09:07:52

If its simply a matter of supply and demand why does OPEC exist? They exist to set prices and we do nothing about it, free trade you know. Lou

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Jerry Cent. Mi.

07-08-2005 15:32:28

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Re: OT-Fed Up!!! in reply to Lou, 07-08-2005 11:58:28

Fifty years ago when some of us guys wanted to go hunting we had-had-had to help with gas money and car pool. Now the cars are two small to car pool a hunting trip.

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Ol Chief

07-09-2005 04:01:48

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Re: OT-Fed Up!!! in reply to Jerry Cent. Mi., 07-08-2005 15:32:28

Has anyone considered that the Arab nations producing oil are very unhappy with what is happening because of our actions in their area of the world.Maybe this is a way to make us pay. For the most part their governments are kingdoms or dictatorships.Does anyone think those guys want democracy? As a side notion,has anyone heard anything of what is happening with the oil supply out of Iraq.Are they in any way helping us with petroleum.I think our government would be trumpeting about Iraqui oil being supplied to us if in fact it was a fact.As a side note, in the 1970s oil supply crisis,there was no actual shortage.At the the time.I was Chief engineer on a fully loaded tank ship with 210,000 barrels of oil.( Multiply by 42 to get gallons ).Typical time to discharge that load is 28 to 36 hour and then depart immediately for the next cargo.There was no storage space for our cargo ashore,so we had to wait six days before starting to discharge which then required four days.At the same time our company had to divert to Europe several inbound tankers carrying refined product due to lack of storage space in US. Go figure!

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