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Hello Diesel Mechanics

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txgrn

07-03-2005 04:26:07

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Got a rumble on a 6 cyl 404 cu in JD on a cold start (been sitting for days or more) before the oil press registers.

Figurin the engine bearings have some unnecessary slop.

I have heard that diesels will sometimes go thru 2 sets of engine bearings to one set of rings. So, when you do the first set of engine bearings, are you after the mains or inserts or both?

Also, any opinions as to how bad it can get before you ding a crank or spin a bearing?

This engine only rumbles for that few seconds and runs like a top, very quietly, after pressure is established. Hot starts are quiet.

Thanks,

Mark

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ejr-IA.

07-03-2005 09:59:44

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Re: Hello Diesel Mechanics in reply to txgrn, 07-03-2005 04:26:07

I would do a under haul of bearings JD machanics recomend at 6000hr or so.You can do this without removeing the engine.

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txgrn

07-04-2005 05:55:06

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Re: Hello Diesel Mechanics in reply to ejr-IA., 07-03-2005 09:59:44

Yeah. It will probably come to that once I have syked myself up to it. Just the thought of having to go into this tractor is hard to rationalize right now. It just doesn't look like it needs it. I know that once I get started it will all be over in a few hours, but the oil pan is heavy..... .Grin.

Trying to remember my 18 wheeling days, I think OTR trucks had the same recommendation.....just don't remember the frequency.

Mark

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buckva

07-03-2005 08:50:33

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Re: Hello Diesel Mechanics in reply to txgrn, 07-03-2005 04:26:07

Not familiar with your particular tractor/engine, but is it possible to crank it with the battery untill oil pressure is established before you allow it to fire up.

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txgrn

07-04-2005 05:50:55

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Re: Hello Diesel Mechanics in reply to buckva, 07-03-2005 08:50:33

Yes. That is what I did yesterday and it worked real well.

thanks,

Mark

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Allan in NE

07-03-2005 08:45:34

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Re: Hello Diesel Mechanics in reply to txgrn, 07-03-2005 04:26:07

Hey Mark,

I don't know sic-em about your tractor, but IHs have oil pressure running to that injector pump.

They will rattle into the next county 'til the oil pressure hits 'em. Maybe this is what you are hearing instead of the bottom end?

Although, this sound is more of a constant "rap" sound for the first 3 or 4 seconds. Not a "rod knock" type sound.

Dunno,

Allan

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txgrn

07-04-2005 05:49:54

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Re: Hello Diesel Mechanics in reply to Allan in NE, 07-03-2005 08:45:34

I'm deeeeef and am sitting in the cab when I start it. This weekend I will have family over and will get one of them to start it while I stand next to it.

Maybe I'll be smarter then.

Thanks.....hay farmer....Grin.

Mark

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Weirsdale George

07-03-2005 07:15:25

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Re: Hello Diesel Mechanics in reply to txgrn, 07-03-2005 04:26:07

This may not help you, but some years ago, I read where someone installed an electric oil pump in parallel with the diesel's oil pump and when the glow plugs came on, so did the auxillary oil pump. By the time the engine started to crank, you already had full oil pressure. (I believe the engine was for a back-up generator which had to be a full power in less than one minute of a power drop. The engine also had block and oilpan heaters running all the time.)

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txgrn

07-04-2005 05:43:48

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Re: Hello Diesel Mechanics in reply to Weirsdale George, 07-03-2005 07:15:25

Sounds like the right idea.

Mark

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Davis In SC

07-03-2005 17:38:24

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Re: Hello Diesel Mechanics in reply to Weirsdale George, 07-03-2005 07:15:25

If all engines had a way to pump up oil pressure before starting, they should almost last forever... That dry start is when most wear happens.....

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txgrn

07-04-2005 05:46:04

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Re: Hello Diesel Mechanics in reply to Davis In SC, 07-03-2005 17:38:24

That's why I like synthetic motor oil. It protects much better then. Proved it works on a Ford p/u and 3 cyl diesel lawn tractor.

Matter of fact, yesterday I put in a couple of quarts of Mobil 1 and ran it awhile. Will see today if it makes any difference.

Mark

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DaveH IA

07-03-2005 05:42:26

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Re: Hello Diesel Mechanics in reply to txgrn, 07-03-2005 04:26:07

I would un-hook the front pump coupler and try a cold start--the pump can make some funny noise---check the bushings and drive studs for wear---with proper care the brgs last as long as the pistons on a deere---done a 4020 while back 11,000 hrs crank was standard looked good brgs looked good---but! anything can happen--and if you think it's the brgs I'd be dropin' the pan soon

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txgrn

07-03-2005 06:14:29

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Re: Hello Diesel Mechanics in reply to DaveH IA, 07-03-2005 05:42:26

Hear you on the pump. Maybe I should get someone else to start it while I stand beside it and listen.

Naw other way around.....I'm deeef.

Since the tractor shows no signs of owner neglect and the hours seem accurate, based on wear points on the tractor, It's hard for me to believe I have to do a lower on it.

It has a fresh repaint and all and I hate to go into it if I don't have to....and with the way it starts and runs, it doesn't seem possible that the lowers are worn out without some other signs indicating it needs to be done.

Since I don't know what oil is in it, I might just change the oil; (put in some syn) and see what happens. Seller changed the fluids B4 I got it and the oil is still clean....on a diesel mind you.

Thanks,

Mark

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DaveH IA

07-03-2005 06:36:13

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Re: Hello Diesel Mechanics in reply to txgrn, 07-03-2005 06:14:29

Mark you might cut the old oil filter apart and spread it out and look for shiny stuff---

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Bob

07-03-2005 15:07:17

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Re: Hello Diesel Mechanics in reply to DaveH IA, 07-03-2005 06:36:13

Better yet, pull an oil sample, and send it in and see what's turning up in the oil.

I agree with the other poster abput the hydraulic noise... when the tractor sits a few days, and the oil cooler up front and the lines all drain back, the hydraulics will make all kinds of weird noises until the cooler is again filled by the transmission pump, and the front pump again has a good supply of air-free oil.

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txgrn

07-04-2005 05:47:49

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Re: Hello Diesel Mechanics in reply to Bob, 07-03-2005 15:07:17

Who do you send oil samples to for analysis?

Thanks,

I had a 4020 that really rattled the pump till I put in new bushings on the drive coupling.

Mark

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txgrn

07-03-2005 06:44:33

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Re: Hello Diesel Mechanics in reply to DaveH IA, 07-03-2005 06:36:13

Great Idea.

Thanks,

Mark

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lucasss

07-03-2005 05:42:25

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Re: Hello Diesel Mechanics in reply to txgrn, 07-03-2005 04:26:07

i usually just pull the mains and see how they look and then decide. plastiguage can tell clearance . some engines have one or two unders available that can tighten up a std crank.. lucas

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txgrn

07-03-2005 06:08:15

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Re: Hello Diesel Mechanics in reply to lucasss, 07-03-2005 05:42:25

So is the noise usually mains?

Thanks,

Mark

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