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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

E85 usage

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Mark in Mizzou

06-28-2005 08:03:09




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Is anyone using E85 in their Ford vehicles?
I have a 2003 F-150 with the Triton 5.4 and I'm cautious about using the E85. Thanks for the feed back.
Mark Hill
Dearborn,MO




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26Red

06-28-2005 15:15:41




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 Re: E85 usage in reply to Mark in Mizzou, 06-28-2005 08:03:09  
You can run up to a 50% mix without too much performance loss. I run it in my truck- which is not designed for E85. It has 231,000 miles on it. The last 50K have been mixed tanks of E85. I saw a 1-2 mpg decrease over normal driving conditions.



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buickanddeere

06-28-2005 13:55:15




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 Re: E85 usage in reply to Mark in Mizzou, 06-28-2005 08:03:09  
If the vehicle was not built for E85 it will fall on it's face. The fuel flow has to be about doubled for the same amount of HP output. A gasoline only injection system lacks the required flow. Too small right from the tank pump to the injectors. The computer's gasoline only software will read sensor outputs from E85 combustion and get confused.



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ChadS

06-28-2005 15:16:03




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 Re: E85 usage in reply to buickanddeere, 06-28-2005 13:55:15  
It would be interesting to get a fuel injected engine to run right on E85,,,,, If I was to try it on anything, Id try it on a Ford, from 88-93 5.0 with SEFI. From what I understand, there is a setup, where you could hook up a computer to the EEC, and tune it to the mods you have done. You would have to have an updated computer system in the auto, like the super chip, bigger injectors, but Im not sure if the rail pressure would have to be altered?? bout 40 psi they run now,,, I bet my 88 T-bird would love that stuff, if I could get it to run, has roller cam, and alot of manifold vacuum, the AOD wouldnt like it though,,, LOL! Chad

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buickanddeere

06-29-2005 06:40:35




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 Re: E85 usage in reply to ChadS, 06-28-2005 15:16:03  
If you about double the size on the injectors and upgrade the fuel pump thye will sometimes run 1/2 decent even with the gasoline software. It's that running lean and the computer calling for max injector pulse width at that rpm/thottle position/map pressure/flow meter. And still not getting the O2 sensor to reach about .7V that confuses things. About the highest flow high impedance disk injectors which I use in the National are 42lb 007's. There is a 50lb pintle high impedance out there too. Any higher flow and the injectors are low impedance "peak & hold" design. The origional computer drivers will work if the transistors are swapped out for high current models.

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ChadS

06-29-2005 09:37:00




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 Re: E85 usage in reply to buickanddeere, 06-29-2005 06:40:35  
The "National" is that a Grand National? If so, now I under stand the "Buick" in your handle! Ever see the episode of the tonite show, where Tim Allen and Jay Leno had the burnout contest in the parking lot? Leno had a twin turbo charged Grand National, and allen had the Saleen Mustang. I took a ride in a freinds GN, man that was a good ride! At the time, I had a 83 S-10 with a 400 chevy small block, warmed over, but higher gear than he had, we raced, and the GN just edged me out by a fender. 1/4 mile was 11.25, and mine was 11.99. bout 125 mph, he said he was running. that aint bad for a V6!!! He had since blew the crank after hopping up the turbo on a engine that had close to 60,000 miles, but, it was a hard 60K ya know,,, Ive got a turbo set up for a small chevy if I ever build another racer/ street sleeper. I thought of a Grand Prix if I had a choice of body styles, I like the 83-84 models, Every one has a camaro, everyone has a chevelle, everyone has a Mustang, but a combo of a T-bird and a grand prix would be fun! If the t-bird dont, the prix will? LOL! Chad

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buickanddeere

06-29-2005 15:21:45




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 Re: E85 usage in reply to ChadS, 06-29-2005 09:37:00  
290,000 miles on mine and hardly drove her the past four years. Still the original bottom end. 227,000 miles on the cam, heads and turbo.
She needs new rubber body mounts and a paint job to look good. Dozens of parking lot door rings and getting keyed. The original lacquer factor paint was terrible form day one.
Only rust through was the "A" pillars. Never thought of oiling in there.
The turbo is an old Cheetah H-3 with a .83 housing. The trans shop was supposed to install a 2800 rpm stall torque but it barely makes 2000. She's a bit slow off the line until the 1/2 way through 1st gear then hang on.
Running her on 60 wt Amsoil. She's going to have to have $15,000-20,000 spent on her to be top notch 100% everything. She's in the mid 12's. Don't want to push her too hard now. Ordered it over the phone on Jan 3rd and was built 3rd week of July.

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ChadS

06-29-2005 16:19:19




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 Re: E85 usage in reply to buickanddeere, 06-29-2005 15:21:45  
It wasnt a TCI saturday nite special torque converter they installed was it? 20K is cheap for a total restoration! I did a frame off restoraion on a 1962 Chevy Impala SS 409 back in my late teens early 20's took me 5 years, and 28,000 later,, but man, when those 2 4s opened up, and with a 4 speed rock crusher Muncie, it would git r done!! I eneded up selling her,,,,, guy in MI bought her, She was sweet, red, SS stripe down the side, black int with buckets, still had the original AM radio that still worked! (Just got tired of listening to the news all the time on AM) but never, ever thought of putting in a new radio,, One night, Me ,and my Ex wife ( when we were still dating) had a seizure, and we were in the 62,, bout 3 miles out of town, I turned it around and heded to the police station,, The cop found me!! I was clocked at 138 mph in a 35 zone! I got her to the EMS in time, she went to the hospital, and I had to stay behind,, mr police man had to have a word with me,,, after about an hour of talking to him, he let me off with a warning, due tothe circumstances, but he sure liked looking over that ol 62 chevy! I was like, hey I gotta go to the hospital here!! He was like,, she will be fine,, lemme have a closer look at that car! The buyer of the car just wanted the body for some dumb reason, and did not take the engine! I was heart broken to take the 409 out, wasnt the exact same year as the car, it was a 65 engine, he had a 62 engine year to put down in it. So, now I have this 409 sitting in the shop, with nothing to do with it! Giddy up giddy up 409!! Ive had alot of muscle cars,,, the 62 was my favorite, but the fastest was a 1980 mustang,, I put a 410 ci small block chevy in it, with a 4.56 posi,, 3 speed auto, top speed 120mph,, but, only 6 seconds to get there,,, best trap speed on the strip was 6.74 at 110 mph. Tech guy at the track, when I raced it, popped the hood,, he looked, looked again,, shook his head, thats the weirdest looking 5.0 Ive ever seen! was short of 600 hp with out the bottle. I miss that car. Chad

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dej(JED)

06-28-2005 11:59:58




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 Re: E85 usage in reply to Mark in Mizzou, 06-28-2005 08:03:09  
If your vehicle is not an E85 machine don't use it. The BTU value is much lower than gasoline and you will get a lot less mpg and HP.
Also ethanol is very hard on conventional lines and tanks and really needs stainless to stop system corrosion.



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Leland

06-28-2005 11:51:18




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 Re: E85 usage in reply to Mark in Mizzou, 06-28-2005 08:03:09  
Go to www.E85fuel.com but I use E-85 in a 01 S-10 and I dropped 5mpg using this fuel and if towing heavy loads use gas bacause truck will fall on it's face using E85 I belive gas is just as cheap to burn



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ChadS

06-28-2005 13:30:38




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 Re: E85 usage in reply to Leland, 06-28-2005 11:51:18  
its too "hot" to burn. The computer in auto/trucks cannot compensate for the changes ethanol creates in the combustion chamber, and exhaust gasses. Ethanol, in my opinion is a substitute for octane booster, and E85 is just like trying to run 120 octane, in an engine that only requires 87. It falls on its face because the engine cannot burn it properly due to the computer settings to run on regular unleaded pump gas, and rpm. See, Ethanol burns much cleaner than gas, computer, then tries to compensate by richening the mixture, then it begins to flood out, you wont see it in plug color, cause it burns so clean, as rpm increases, it begins to lose power, beacuse the computer is not set up for the different characteristics that is created by the ethanol. Gas is a very dirty burning fuel, and is more explosive than ethanol. If you would mix 1/2 tank of E85 with 1/2 tank of 87 or your favorite pump gas, it would run better because the gasoline gives it a more explosive burn, where ethanol is so hard to ignite. Your S-10 dropped fuel milage, because the computer thought, it needed more fuel, because the emmissions were so clean, making the computer think it was running lean. Can a engine run on pure E85? A fuel injected engine will not, as well as a carburated engine, no computer to screw up the fuel settings, also if your trying to run e85 straight, you must have a compression ratio of atleast 12 to 1, it loves compression, and more compression, it does not have much trouble igniting the fuel. I can tell you this much, I can run a gas tractor engine, at 300 psi of compression at cranking speed on a mix of 50/50 E85, and 93 octane pump gas, and not preignite, or dentonate, and do it with less actual octane than most racing fuel contains. It is a very slow burning, hard to ignite fuel. Think of E85, more like octane booster, rather than a regular fuel. Been running it for 15 years now in pulling tractors with compression ratios ranging from 7to1 up to 15 to 1, and run good on it, but, its not pure E85,,, its cut back with 93 pump gas. ChadS

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RustyFarmall

06-28-2005 08:19:57




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 Re: E85 usage in reply to Mark in Mizzou, 06-28-2005 08:03:09  
Read your owners manual, if E-85 is not listed as an alternative fuel for your vehicle then don't use it.



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