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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

all fuel?

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New Farmer

06-26-2005 07:36:41




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I just picked up a 1935 J.D. It has two fuel tanks. One person told me one of the tanks is a reserve tank and someone told me that one of the tanks was for gas and the other was for a product called All Fuel. His explination was you started the tractor on the gas fuel and once it was warmed up you switched to the All Fuel which was cheaper to run in the old days. What is all fuel, or what is the reciepe to make it? Which one is right

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Leroy

06-27-2005 16:59:56




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 Re: all fuel? in reply to New Farmer, 06-26-2005 07:36:41  
Small tank Gas, Large distilate or kerosine, try running deisel and you will just foul out your plugs, like an oil using, Burnning, Engine, deisel feels like oil but kerosine is more a dry feeling fuel and will clean out carbon but deisel will add to the carbon



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gee

06-26-2005 15:41:55




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 Re: all fuel? in reply to New Farmer, 06-26-2005 07:36:41  
1 tank for starting is diesel. 1 tank for operating tractor is gas. that's what my uncle's is like. luck to you and yours



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Can't even use my name

06-26-2005 18:56:09




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 Re: all fuel? in reply to gee, 06-26-2005 15:41:55  
I think you have that backwards. Start on easy to ignite GAS and when warm run on the DIESEL or what ever else was burnable.



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RAB

06-26-2005 12:57:48




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 Re: all fuel? in reply to New Farmer, 06-26-2005 07:36:41  
Most are right in most things. A couple of points though. In UK (I"m assuming you are in the US) the cost of running any tractor (other than a lawnmower) on petrol is prohibitive. Comparative price of fuel is about $6 for a USG.
Later tractors with a thermostat did not need a radiator blind unless it was exceptionally cold in the UK (typically warmer here than in central US states).
Thermodynamically, a kero burner is less efficient on gas than one with a gas head as the compression ratio needs to be lower for the low octane fuel.
I use a mixture of 70% kero (28 second Redwood), 20% gas and 10% gas oil (34 second Redwood - diesel)if I am running lightly loaded, otherwise straight kero works OK.
Regards, RAB

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Jon H

06-26-2005 12:02:26




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 Re: all fuel? in reply to New Farmer, 06-26-2005 07:36:41  
Both people are more or less correct. When running distilate fuel in the main tank,the small tank is for starting and warming up the fuel system before switching to the heavy fuel.
After distilate tractor fuel was no longer used,the little tank was used for a reserve fuel supply to get you home if you ran the big tank out of gas.
Unless you have a special reason for running a heavy distilate type fuel,the disadvantages far outweigh any advantages.
To run a distilate type fuel ypu need to load the tractor heavy enough to get it hot and burning most of the fuel. Even then a lot of un burned distilate got down past the rings and contaminated the engine oil. I seem to remember that most of those all fuel tractors wanted you to replace a portion of the crankcase oil with new oil every day to keep the oil dilution from getting bad enough to hurt the engine.

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Russel

06-26-2005 11:21:40




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 Re: all fuel? in reply to New Farmer, 06-26-2005 07:36:41  
Start on the little tank using gasoline. Engine temp doesn't matter, the exhaust/intake manifold being hot does. Look closely at the manifolds and see if it still has the "vaporizer" manifold on it. It may have been changed if this tractor was used in to the fifties when the tractor fuel disappeared. The reason the manifolds were changed over for gasoline is gasoline gave less power if it was ran thru the vaporizer manifold.

The old farmall regulars were easy to tell which manifold they had, I don't know about JD'rs.

I found a mix of 10 gallon modern kerosene and 5 gallon of gasoline worked well. Except for smelling like a kerosene lamp you really can't tell the difference unless you are working them hard.

IF you use a mix in the big tank remember to shut the fuel off and burn it out of the lines and carb before killing the engine. They will not start cold of a heavy mix. Course if it is running of a magneto just shut the fuel off and go in for supper.

Often when there is a hot restart problem with an old tractor it is because a vaporizer manifold is being used with this modern light gasoline we now have.

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buickanddeere

06-26-2005 14:50:18




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 Re: all fuel? in reply to Russel, 06-26-2005 11:21:40  
They might run under heavy load with hot manifolds and cool coolant temps. However those who operated that way, spent a lot of money on replacing pistons, blocks,rings and bearings. Cold cylinder walls suffer high wear rates. Jet-B sold in 3rd world contries is similar to "power fuel" or what ever the refinerys had left over and sold cheap. Jet A or Jet A-1 is a very clean and pure kerosene at a reasonable price. #2 diesel is too heavy to burn clean but the engine will still run on it at 210F. #1 winter diesel which is partly kerosene will do in a pinch but it's plenty heavy too.

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Delbert from Lincoln

06-26-2005 10:52:07




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 Re: all fuel? in reply to New Farmer, 06-26-2005 07:36:41  
Right, the small tank was for gasoline for starting the engine, and the large one was for distilate, tractor fuel, or kerosene. That tractor should run just fine on kerosene after it is warmed up. If you want to mess around, you can mix up kerosene and gasoline and make your own tractor fuel. Since it will burn either kerosene or gasoline, and the fuels are about the same price, find the ratio that the tractor likes, and you can demonstrate switching fuel at shows. Somebody else said 1/2 diesel and 1/2 gas. I have never used it, but see no reason that it wouldn"t work. After all that tractor was advertised to run on anything flameable. Originallly it had a curtain to roll up in front of the radiator to heat up the engine. These were often replaced with shutters. Some tractors they have been take off. If you don"t have a curtain, or shutters, and want to play, cut a piece of cardboard to put in front of the radiator. Otherwise you can"t get it hot enough to run decent. There isn"t any advantage to burning anything buy gasoline, other then to play.

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old

06-26-2005 10:13:45




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 Re: all fuel? in reply to New Farmer, 06-26-2005 07:36:41  
I have a 1935 JD-B which is also an all fuel model. As others have said the back/small tank is for gas and the lager front tank is for distile which you can't get any more. Kerosine works or a mix of 50/50 gas and diesel also works well. We usto use the all fuel thing years ago but now days it doesn't save you any money so we don't any more. It was sort of neet to see the big smoke rings it put out running on the gas diesel mix.

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Stan - Florida

06-26-2005 08:59:23




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 Re: all fuel? in reply to New Farmer, 06-26-2005 07:36:41  
The term "all fuel" was used by Deere to promote their tractors back in the day. They were touted as being able to run on anything that would burn.

Gasoline was at least twice as expensive as distillate/power fuel/etc. Gas was used to start the tractors since it was more volatile, then the tractor was switched to the "big tank" (distillate/power fuel/etc.) after warming up to about 170 degrees F. The later full-gasoline engines developed more power.

I can't address the issue of the mixture, but I'll bet someone on here can.

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Dixieland

06-26-2005 08:54:55




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 Re: all fuel? in reply to New Farmer, 06-26-2005 07:36:41  
The small tank was for gasoline. The large tank was for kerosene. The tractor was started up on gasoline and after the engine temperature was 180 degrees, the fuel valve was used to switch over to kerosene. There should be a curtain in front of the radiator to assist in heating up and maintaining the engine temperature.



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edchainsaw

06-26-2005 19:41:57




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 Re: all fuel? in reply to Dixieland, 06-26-2005 08:54:55  
you all have it right...

but you do need to switch back to the gas only and run it before you stop... the "OILY mess" that the "all fuel" is will mess up plugs if not burnt clean...

I messed up many a plug in our G by not cleaning htem off...

and you dont have to have an ALL fuel to run diesel - I messed up and filled and ran a tank of #2 Diesel in a 444 massey one summer... it was a smoker LOL
and grampa's 72 chevy truck dont ask me why but we ran that on full diesel one summer just because we could. LOL.

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