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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Making liquid fuel from natural gas?

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Rauville

05-15-2005 20:13:44




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Just read the Yahoo news article on the announcement that Qatar has invented a process to make diesel fuel from natural gas.
I thought that we were producing liquid fuels from natural gas close to a hundred years ago. There is a 1915 US Government report (just search: "gasoline from natural gas") that states that in 1913 there were 24+ million gallons of gasoline produced from natural gas. I know that in the 1920's the Signal Gas and Oil Company from California used this process for their product.
Are we still using natural gas for gasoline production, or is this another technology lost in the complex of "big business"?

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VernMN

05-16-2005 15:24:52




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 Re: Making liquid fuel from natural gas? in reply to Rauville, 05-15-2005 20:13:44  
In 1984 I worked on the Mobil oil "Gas to Gas' refinery in New Zealand. It was taking the natural gas from the Maoi Field and converting into gasoline. At that time it was to produce 55% of the gasoline supply for New Zealand.



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Lou NY

05-16-2005 06:58:24




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 Re: Making liquid fuel from natural gas? in reply to Rauville, 05-15-2005 20:13:44  
There is a company in the US that has been doing this on a limited scale. In Pueblo Co.they had a pilot plant that was to use methane from a landfill as fuel to make diesel and parrafin wax. Rentek, they have had a few small US projects but it has not been economical as of yet.



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buickanddeere

05-16-2005 05:19:34




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  Making liquid fuel from natural gas,coal, wood, b in reply to Rauville, 05-15-2005 20:13:44  
It's just hydro-carbons, hydrogen and carbon. Take a source, break them down under heat, pressure, catalyst, add some hydrogen if need be. And there you go, liquid fuel. Gasoline, diesel or one of the alcohol family. Problem is the cost of the base stock, the equipment cost, energy input cost and value of the finished product. North America is out of significant new natural gas reserves. Gas heat and fertilizer costs? You haven't seen anything yet. In the days of natural gas into gasoline, natural gas was a waste product that was flared off at the well head. Coal ga$ification along with some ethanol and bio-die$el will be the an$wer in the U$. Canada has the 2nd largest deposit of oil anywhere in the world. Problem is the stuff is in the Tarsands. It takes most of production oil just to make process steam. The steam is used to thin the tar so it can be removed from the sand. Alberta is dead set against using anything nuclear. Nuclear is an extremely cheap source of steam but Alberta doesn't want energy competition. The day will come when an Advanced Candu will be tied into the tarsands process. Canada will then become the Arabs of the north. The US will have to invade in order to keep us safe and secure.

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Mike M

05-16-2005 07:39:13




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 Re: Making liquid fuel from natural gas,coal, woo in reply to buickanddeere, 05-16-2005 05:19:34  
Must be plenty of fuel left as they keep the eternal flame a burning at Kennedy's tomb. How about the olympics ? I think that flame has been burning since forever ?



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Rauville

05-16-2005 06:55:32




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 Re: Making liquid fuel from natural gas,coal, woo in reply to buickanddeere, 05-16-2005 05:19:34  
Thanks B&D for your explanation;
Do we have any commercial coal gasification plants on line today? I know that the big plant up at Beulah, ND that was built back in the 1970's never did work out because of the removal of price controls on natural gas.
Didn't most of the towns and cities back in the 1890's and early 1900's have what was simple coal gasification plants that produced "town gas"?
It just seems like we are having to reinvent what was standard practice years ago. Now it takes the Kingdom of Qatar to produce diesel fuel for us!

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Matt from CT

05-16-2005 09:31:30




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 Re: Making liquid fuel from natural gas,coal, woo in reply to Rauville, 05-16-2005 06:55:32  
"Town Gas" -- I believe that's "Coal Gas" or "City Gas"

I believe a much less efficient process than modern "Gasification"

City Gas was made by incomplete combustion (i.e. slow burning) of coal.

It produce Carbon Monoxide (CO)...which was then piped to homes for lighting & cooking.

Of course, that's the same CO people now have alarms for (gotta love my sister who put a CO alarm in her all-electric home...hmmmm...)

And the fact City Gas was CO...is where the old "put your head in the oven to committ suicide" came from. LP & Natural Gas are much less efficient killers.

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Bob

05-16-2005 07:08:11




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 Re: Making liquid fuel from natural gas,coal, woo in reply to Rauville, 05-16-2005 06:55:32  
Dakota Gasification is alive and well... see link below...



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buickanddeere

05-16-2005 07:48:09




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 Re: Making liquid fuel from natural gas,coal, woo in reply to Bob, 05-16-2005 07:08:11  
The Germans ran the WWII war on synthetic gasoline, diesel and kerosene made from coal. South Africa after getting hit with the trade embargo made a fortune. They improved the coal gasification process and sold the technology to other countries around the world. It's just a matter of raw material cost, transportation, equipment cost and finished product price. Crude oil price just has to go up enough or a change in gov’t policy. As for now why not burn middle east fossil fuels and keep ours?

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RayP(MI)

05-15-2005 21:10:14




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 Re: Making liquid fuel from natural gas? in reply to Rauville, 05-15-2005 20:13:44  
As a chemist, I'm going out on a limb here, but I'll bet the process isn't cheap or simple. 'Course if the cost of conventionally produced fuels gets much higher, all bets are off!



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cdmn

05-15-2005 21:08:06




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 Re: Making liquid fuel from natural gas? in reply to Rauville, 05-15-2005 20:13:44  
We need all the natural gas we can get for fertilizer, crop drying, building heating systems, and ethanol stills.



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Davis In SC

05-15-2005 20:20:02




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 Re: Making liquid fuel from natural gas? in reply to Rauville, 05-15-2005 20:13:44  
I wonder if this fuel would have the lubricity to make injection pumps last, but if it was blended with Biodiesel, it might be the answer..... ..



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