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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Detroit 4-71

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Roy Suomi

06-21-2007 20:55:46




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I've seen a GMC 6500 series truck with a 4-71 TA engine in it ..Has anyone had any experience with these engines on a medium size truck..My Ford F-600 has a 330 V-8 gas motor in it is TERRIBLE on gas..Tuned , carb rebuilt, auxiliary transmission , oversized tires..My service truck weighs in at 16,625 lbs fully loaded..How about pros and cons with this engine swap..Whats the red line [ top rpm] on the Detroit..Will it run at 3,000 ??..Fuel economy there or am I dreaming???

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Ryne

06-24-2007 18:07:05




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 Re: Detroit 4-71 in reply to Roy Suomi, 06-21-2007 20:55:46  
We have a 4-71 in our truck mounted with an underbody blade for road grading and in that particular truck its quite slow because of the gearing 40-45 tops in high side of 5th but for just grading it does alright i don't know what you plan to use this truck for but i cant help with fuel mileage as this doesnt travel on the highways much mileage and power i think would depend on use and how much is hauled with it

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jwal10

06-23-2007 19:57:05




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 Re: Detroit 4-71 in reply to Roy Suomi, 06-21-2007 20:55:46  
How about the 8.2 liter v-8 detroit, had one in a 7000 ford. Was a good engine and was good on fuel.You can find everything to swap over in one piece. The 4-71 runs to slow and the truck will be so slow it will cost as much for fuel as the gas....James



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buickanddeere

06-22-2007 21:11:27




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 Re: Detroit 4-71 in reply to Roy Suomi, 06-21-2007 20:55:46  
Would it be cost effective to convert the Ford gasser to an aftermarket closed loop fuel injection system? Mileage and drivability would be improved. An detonation detector with auto timing retartd will allow tuning the engine to the very edge for max power & economy without suffering detonation damage. In the mean time check the Holley for a power valve that has been ruptured by a backfire. They do get missed or damaged again on the very next backfire. There is a update to protect the power valve. The power valve maybe opening too soon before the engine is heavily loaded. There are several ratings to choose from. Reduce the acelerator pump volume until the engine is on the just a notch away from stumble when she's floored. Is the thermostat a 195F unit?

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Roy Suomi

06-23-2007 06:12:14




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 Re: Detroit 4-71 in reply to buickanddeere, 06-22-2007 21:11:27  
I just built the carb..New power valve..Accelerator pump is set lean...Just on the cusp of a stumble...I dunno about the closed loop injector system..Never priced such a critter..I think I'm better off with the Iveco. It's not rusty [ body wise] runs real good starts smoke free..Chassis is a little lighter than the Ford..I'll just have to lighten the load some...Was told fuel economy was 12-14 mpg..About double that of F-600..That GMC I refered to earlier in this post was the service truck at the Deere dealer I last worked for..It ran well for a 4 cylinder and a fully loaded service truck..Smoked black a good bit if lugging over RR tracks..I had a guy behind me turn on his lights and wipers after that...I heard of a GMC truck with the Deere 6 cylinder that was built back in the 80's..Never seen one up close but I'll bet it's neat...

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buickanddeere

06-23-2007 06:17:31




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 Re: Detroit 4-71 in reply to Roy Suomi, 06-23-2007 06:12:14  
If you are in thick with a JD Dealer dealer there are some more options. Link If you can find a 414T or a 466T, you are in business.



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Roy Suomi

06-22-2007 19:06:26




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 Re: Detroit 4-71 in reply to Roy Suomi, 06-21-2007 20:55:46  
I want to thank all who responded to my inquiry about the 4-71 engine swap..I'll probably swap my service body to another chassis..Hate to ,because of all the work I did to it prepping it for serious work...Gas wasn't too bad when I built the truck..Now it's impossible to justify putting all that gas down the Holley "toilet" thats on top of that engine..A friend has an Iveco chassis sitting around that I'm considering for my tool truck..diesel , stick , 106,000 miles..Needs a clutch and brake lines..I don't think my F-600 is worth beans , I'll probably have to parts it out to get any money out of it...Whats a Spicer auxilliary trans worth?? 7231 D , I think

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massey333

06-23-2007 16:43:30




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 Re: Detroit 4-71 in reply to Roy Suomi, 06-22-2007 19:06:26  
That man is no friend if he is trying to pawn a IVECO off on you.They are or were a very good truck,until they pulled out of the US and won't supply the parts on a timely order.There are a lot of them sitting in the weeds now.IF you can buy it SUPER SUPER CHEAP maybe go for it.



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350 HU Don

06-22-2007 17:58:44




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 Re: Detroit 4-71 in reply to Roy Suomi, 06-21-2007 20:55:46  
This engine is a good horse. I spent lots of miles in a semi tractor powered with a 6-71, N65 injectors, rated at 238 hp and pulling 73,000 lbs. the 4-71 with N65's would be 148, but those are big horses. The Detroit is a more economical engine than the Cummins and lasts longer. We ran a fleet that included both Detroits and Cummins and the Detroits got about a tenth of a mile per gallon better fuel mileage and lasted, on average, about 100,000 miles further between overhauls than the Cummins. In a single axle straight truck this would be more than enough power. the big question is whether you want to spend all it would take to convert this thing. Look into that carefully.

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RodInNS

06-22-2007 14:34:13




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 Re: Detroit 4-71 in reply to Roy Suomi, 06-21-2007 20:55:46  
Hmmm.... If you don't want to just get another truck, then I'd look at a little Cat or a 5.9 Cummins over the Detroit. I wouldn't want to listen to the damn old thing scream all day long.
That said.... I don't think a 4-71TA would be as tired as some think. The straight 4-71 might be down in the 110-150 range, but with the turbo and aftercooler it ought to jump handier 180-200, but mabey I'm wrong.
I'd still look at the Cummins first though.

Rod

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4010guy

06-22-2007 08:40:48




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 Re: Detroit 4-71 in reply to Roy Suomi, 06-21-2007 20:55:46  
I love all them ol detroits----When you crawl in to drive it, Slam your fingers in the door and drive in like you HATE it. ;o)



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Mike (WA)

06-22-2007 08:16:43




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 Re: Detroit 4-71 in reply to Roy Suomi, 06-21-2007 20:55:46  
A 4-71 in a 16K truck won't be life in the slow lane- it'll be life in the bike path. Really think you'd be much happier to swap off the F-600, keep the service box, and put it on a diesel truck.



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buickanddeere

06-22-2007 17:36:17




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 Re: Detroit 4-71 in reply to Mike (WA), 06-22-2007 08:16:43  
140HP at 1800 rpm natural aspirated. A Turbo Intercooled 4-71 at 2300 rpm is good for 200-225HP without putting unburned fuel up the stack.



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the tractor vet

06-22-2007 06:18:34




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 Re: Detroit 4-71 in reply to Roy Suomi, 06-21-2007 20:55:46  
Roy , if ya ain't deef yet you will be . A 4-71 sure ain't no power house somewhere around 110-140 hp been around them back in my younger days , probably why i can hear today hard to believe that a littel 5.9 cummins will run the bag off a detroit . If ya want to go thru all the hassel of swappen out and engine for power a fuel economy there is only one way to go and that is with a littel cummins or a small inline cat with taller gears in the back to keep your RPM down something in the neighborhood of lets say 3.90-maybe 4.30 with and OD on the top road gear. Or just find a nice med. duty diesel cab and chassie and move the service body over . The price of fuel will be the death of the small guy as we can not put our fuel requierments up for bid and get a big dicount like the big co. do . In my wildest dreams i would have never thought that GREED would get this bad .

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2x4

06-22-2007 01:45:55




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 Re: Detroit 4-71 in reply to Roy Suomi, 06-21-2007 20:55:46  
makes a good power unit for sawmill. Use 8.3 cummins in the truck



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bluepaint

06-21-2007 22:17:48




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 Re: Detroit 4-71 in reply to Roy Suomi, 06-21-2007 20:55:46  
if it's anything like a 671 you'll spend 8000 rebuilding it and still no power or torque .
Wish i'd dropped in a cummins or ih 466 or something good .



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buickanddeere

06-21-2007 21:12:25




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 Re: Detroit 4-71 in reply to Roy Suomi, 06-21-2007 20:55:46  
The two stroke Detroitas have a flat torque curve compaired to a four stroke. A four stroke tends to have sharp peak in both the torque and HP curves. The detroit's flat torque curve meams it's allways giving her best torque fro idle to redline rpms. HP just varies with rpms. Unlike a four stroke that has to be lugged down to peak volumetric efficiency rpms to obtain peak torque. The end result is that a 200HP detroit can feel underpowered to those used to 200HP four strokes. The Detroit two stroke isn't the most fuel efficient engine out there. It is however very reliable and costs less than a just a set of emmissions fourstroke common rail injectors to rebuild an entire two stroke. Make certain it's the later high compresison N engine rather than the hard to start S series. The S engines smoke more too. If replacing injectors use the C series, they are better than even the N injectors. The gasser rear gear ratio will be plenty high for the diesel. A 53 four valve can run 2800rpm however a 71 series isconsidered a 2300rpm motor. Unless of course it has military parts in the valve train. Then 2800-2900 for brief spurts is ok.

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Bob

06-21-2007 21:02:50




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 Re: Detroit 4-71 in reply to Roy Suomi, 06-21-2007 20:55:46  
Toss a turbo'ed 7.3 diesel in there!



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bjr

06-22-2007 06:19:18




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 Re: Detroit 4-71 in reply to Bob, 06-21-2007 21:02:50  
I been down this road. If your tryin' to save money, get a different truck that's got the motor you want in it already. The change over with adapters for bell housing/clutch motor mounts, radiator, intake and exhaust system, fan power steering, power brakes and not to mention engine compartment clearance. I know I'm the negative pete here but it's one awful job doin' what your'e suggesting, just get a different truck or raise your rates to be able to buy gas. bjr

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