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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Rollover law

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JCL

04-27-2005 18:00:34




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I just read in a farm magazine about a proposed bill in Michigan that would require mandatory rollbars and seatbelts on every tractor made before 1970.Is this a preview of the things to come or just another misguided attempt at saving us from ourselves?




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Bus Driver

04-28-2005 16:42:45




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 Re: Rollover law in reply to JCL, 04-27-2005 18:00:34  
I remember reading about an ancient law that made attempted suicide a crime- punishable by death!



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JK-NY

04-29-2005 06:05:50




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 Re: Rollover law in reply to PeteNY, 04-28-2005 09:36:40  
A lot of these laws you mention are driven by insurance co"s and this rollover law could be too.I wouldnt be surprised to see it here in NY someday as Ins. Co"s would see it as a way to cut Workers Comp cases caused by rollovers.I used to do some part time custom work at a nearby horse farm, one job I did was spread a large manure pile (winters worth) using the owners tractor/loader to load the spreader. They replaced an old tractor with a new C-IH utility tractor/loader and The owners told me that ins. co . said any hired help had to have the roll bar up and wear the seat belt to be covered in case of an accident while using tractor.

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buickanddeere

04-28-2005 07:39:33




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 Re: Rollover law in reply to JCL, 04-27-2005 18:00:34  
Why not just pass a law making it illegal to roll or tip a tractor? Just Kidding.

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MSM

04-28-2005 03:11:28




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 Re: Rollover law in reply to JCL, 04-27-2005 18:00:34  
You cannot legislate common sense as much as our representatives try. We are already neck deep in laws to protect us from our selves,put into place with a good intent in mind,but with no forethought of the costs or practicalities. The sad part is we have allowed it to happen by voting these representatives into public service.



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Tim Shultz

04-27-2005 20:26:24




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 Re: Rollover law in reply to JCL, 04-27-2005 18:00:34  
I ain't going to put no darn roll-over bar on my case and I have a shot gun for who ever want's to make me! thanks for listining, Tim



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Oklatractorrebuilder

04-27-2005 20:56:09




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 Re: Rollover law in reply to Tim Shultz, 04-27-2005 20:26:24  
Right On Brother. There should be a law that only folks who learned to drive tractors at a young age (5 or 6) should be allowed to own one and then only the type they learned on.



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MarkB_MI

04-27-2005 19:35:24




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 Re: Rollover law in reply to JCL, 04-27-2005 18:00:34  
Somebody posted on this a few weeks ago. I don't know if the bill is still alive.

The problem with this bill is not so much its intent, but its practicality. First, roll bars that are properly engineered for older tractors simply don't exist. And if you could buy them, they would cost as much as the tractor is worth, so no one will buy them. Since most tractors never leave the farmstead, the bill is pretty much unenforceable. (Is the local sheriff going to arrest you because an old tractor sitting on your place doesn't have a roll bar? I doubt it.)

But let's step back and consider why this bill was introduced. It's simple: a lot of people are getting killed and injured in rollover accidents on older tractors. This is due to a number of reasons:

1. Many operators have little experience with these machines and don't understand their limitations.

2. Even experienced operators can make mistakes operating in the woods or in rough terrain. It doesn't matter that you've spent thousands of hours on tractors if (like me) most of that time was spent on the flatlands of the High Plains.

3. Farm tractors are being used to do things they were not designed to do, such as pulling stumps.

You don't have to look any further than the archives of this forum to know that tractor safety is a serious issue. So rather than complain about government interference, I'd like to hear some alternatives. For example, here in Michigan we have an excellent motorcycle safety program. It is funded by the state, operated by several colleges and supported by ABATE (an organization opposed to helmet laws). Is there a need for a similar program for tractor operators? I think so. For example, if I hadn't read it here, I wouldn't have known how dangerous it is to operate around trees with grape vines. (We all know a grape vine can snag a tractor or an operator, but who ever thought about vines pulling dead branches out of trees an onto an operator?) That's the sort of information new tractor owners need to know.

Any suggestions?

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jddriver

04-27-2005 20:01:12




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 Re: Rollover law in reply to MarkB_MI, 04-27-2005 19:35:24  
I agree just one close call is one too much,BUT,there are more deaths by drunk drivers every year than gun deaths and farming accicents.All we hear about is how govt is going to legislate saftey and common sencse,so far they have given alot of lip service to drunk driving but done very little to stop the carnage.Laws like this sell press and are feel good laws.My soap box is getting wobbly so I will get off now.This is written by a parent who had a two year old girl killed by a drunk driver.This made his third and he was out of jail awaiting trial in 36 hours.Steve

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Anonymouse

04-28-2005 08:40:24




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 Re: Rollover law in reply to jddriver, 04-27-2005 20:01:12  
Legislatures won"t write tough drunk driving laws because they like to drink and drive too well.



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Sid

04-27-2005 18:54:21




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 Re: Rollover law in reply to JCL, 04-27-2005 18:00:34  
In my opinion it is an example of what is to come if we do not get a grip on the things we have let many officals get by with.



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Ray,IN

04-27-2005 19:20:38




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 Re: Rollover law in reply to Sid , 04-27-2005 18:54:21  
This is a result of weekend farmers(green acres type) getting injured/ killed, and ignorant folks attempting to legislate safe machinery operation. What's next- registering your tractor then banning them outright?



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Pitch

04-28-2005 02:58:04




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 Re: Rollover law in reply to Ray,IN , 04-27-2005 19:20:38  
Ray, I have to disagree with you on the new operator thing. "round these parts most accidents (although I have not done a study on it) seem to happen to older retired farmers in their "70"s. Perhaps after a lifetime of tractor use they become complacent.



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JCL

04-28-2005 04:58:19




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 Re: Rollover law in reply to Pitch, 04-28-2005 02:58:04  
I was at an accident where an elderly man was disking his garden and got too close to the ditch.He lived but had some injuries.To me it is hard to legislate accidents.You can have the safest tractor in the world but if someone hooks a chain where they aren't supposed too who's to blame.



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Tyler from Utah

04-27-2005 22:03:32




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 Re: Rollover law in reply to Ray,IN , 04-27-2005 19:20:38  
By adding a roll bar to the back of the tractor will make it heavy on the back wich means you may have to put weights on the front or add to the pre-existing one's. I can see where they are coming from but people need to use commmon sences! A good start is to read the manuals that are for the model tractor they have! Oh wait! I forgot that dont make any SENCE to them so they won't! Now on registering your tractor if it would be like anything else car,truck,ATV the older the vehical gets the cheaper to register maybe sooner or later it would just cancel its self out? Probably not but nice thought anyways. Keep me posted because UT likes to copy in anyway shape or form so give it a year and it will happen hear! -Tyler

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Jerry Cent. Mi.

04-28-2005 04:55:16




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 Re: Rollover law in reply to Tyler from Utah, 04-27-2005 22:03:32  
After they get roll bars seat belts will be required to.



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Ken Macfarlane

04-28-2005 05:16:34




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 Re: Rollover law in reply to Jerry Cent. Mi., 04-28-2005 04:55:16  
In england all working tractors require roll bars. Antique tractors not worked are fine without.

Manufacturers popped up all over and the bars are now quite cheap.

The weight is over the rear axle so front weights are not needed.

The UK law I think would work much better. I can't believe anyone would protest a roll bar on a working tractor. Because tractors don't have suspension it is extremely hard to estimate the exact rollover point and small bumps can toss it over. I don't know anyone who has been in a tractor rollover who expected it. Many had used the machine since being a kid.

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PeteNY

04-28-2005 09:49:19




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 Re: Rollover law in reply to Ken Macfarlane, 04-28-2005 05:16:34  
Ken, This kind of "settle things w/o any problems" mentality is our problem here in the Good Ole' USofA! There was a time when we actually took a stand when someone tried to stuff something stupid down our throats, now we give a little, and justify it somehow and call it good 'cause we did not cause any waves,, AND it is the "Politically Correct" thing to do anyway!
Heck with these stupid laws! Next thing ya know it'll be illegal to fart in your own home due to global warming. Maybe we should pass a law that says every piece of self promoting, dribble you call legislation you introduce should be voted on by you constituency: if the majority likes it, keep going, if not YOU'RE DONE, NEXT LEGISLATOR PLEASE! Problem with that is there would be alot of incapable attorneys now having to practice law and driving down attorney fees and thus causing a loss of sales for SAAB. A bonus here in NY would be that one particular Senator would be hot footin' back to Arkansas to try a few more real estate deals! Pete

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Van in AR

04-28-2005 21:00:44




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 Re: Rollover law in reply to PeteNY, 04-28-2005 09:49:19  
Now come"on Pete, you"ve gone too far, WE don"t want her back!
Van



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James2

04-28-2005 06:34:02




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 Re: Rollover law in reply to Ken Macfarlane, 04-28-2005 05:16:34  
So if I want to plow or mow the flat back "forty", then I would need to add a roll bar to my JD 830 and 730? No thanks, the UK law is not much better than what is being proposed in Michigan, and certainly would not work for me.



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Ken Macfarlane

04-29-2005 06:45:48




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 Re: Rollover law in reply to James2, 04-28-2005 06:34:02  
I don't know, the antiques at plowing comps don't have to have roll bars. Perhaps theres a rule about if you have a plow on the back that prevents roll over, I don't know.

Some euro companies just openly publish guidelines to build your own roll bar. Its a formula, if your tractor weighs this much and is this tall and use want this style, use x size metal with x thickness for sides and whatever for top.

Personally I know I would put off having a roll bar on one as long as possible if it wasn't law even though I know they can save your life pretty easy. I figure a law may smarten many of the procrastinating folk like me up.

This is coming from a guy who cuts safety guards off pto shafts first time they give me trouble...

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