Gas/Fuel War!!!

Solar power, still expensive to install but if we change our living habits some it is doable. I read an article in a magazine last month where a family is almost totally dependant on solar and I think some wind power.

The fuel prices have slowed alot of my trips down as well but I think it was cowman who was talking about the SUV's and motorcycles and such. My motorcycle is looking alot better now and a good rainsuit isn't that much.hahahha! Now if I can just figure out how to recharge the A/C on the thing!!!!

Oh one other one. have any of you gotten the email floating around about which oil companies use imported crude and which ones don't? I normally don't even read this stuff but thought this was interesting. It is basically calling for a boycott of the importers and support of the non-importers. Stupid me started using logic here.... If the price of imported crude is the reason gas is so high then why is the price of gas at the non-importing companies the same as the price at the importing companies????

WE need to come up with a way to use BS for fuel. As much as is put out on forums all over the Net ( I am including myself in this too so don't get ill) We could have energy for millions of years!!!!! LOL!!!!!

I started out working on the oil rigs in Wyoming. Worked for oilfield service companies for 15 years and have had my own service / consulting company for 8 years. I also farm 200 acres of alfalfa in So Dak and pay about $5000 per year for diesel for farming and irrigation. Nobody likes to pay high fuel prices including me. Here are some things to think about.

- Most industry analysts agree that we are nearing the peak of world oil production. Despite a lot of exploration there just have been very few major oil discoveries in the past 30 years. Most agree that there just not many "big structures" (where giant oilfields are found) left out there. As a recent National Geographic article stated we really are near "The End of Cheap Oil". (I hate to cite Nat. Geo. though I enjoy some of their articles I think they are largely enviro-whackos IMO).

- I have worked with oil and gas people for 25 years. They are geologists, secretaries, landmen, engineers - people trying to make a living like everyone else. (Enron executives excepted.) I and most of the rest of these people have bounced through 25 years of layoffs, good times, lean times. (Reminds me of farming.) In fact I may be a perfect oil and gas worker, smart enough to learn it and dumb enough to keep doing it! Sure oil and gas companies are making big bucks this year but it ain't all been roses believe me! 1998 - 2001 my wife made our house payment while my big money oil businees made zip. - Here is another fact - most of these folks are 45 to 55 years old and getting ready to retire. And the oil and gas industry has developed such a bad reputation for layoffs that very few people choose it as a carreer. In other words nobody is "in the pipeline" to fill the shoes of the gray-hairs. And the Saudis are facing the same thing - many of the experienced hands retiring, struggling to find new help.

- Saudi has most of the known world oil reserves. They have one field called Ghawar that make 65% of their oil. Many oilfields slowly "water out" as they are produced and Ghawar is already at about 35% water. Saudi experts say that Ghawar will produce for 50+ years. Some experts say Ghawar may water out very soon. One thing for sure - when that field starts to go belly up we will see oil price spikes like you won't believe. See the follwoing link for example;>Link

->Link The decline rate for gas wells in the Gulf of Mexico on the continental shelf is very high (30 to 50% per year) and this has been the the go-to place for natural gas in the past. All the gas drilling in Wyoming and the Rockies helps a little but cant really offset the decline in the Gulf.

- So here we all are (ALL OF US) in this boat together, we may be in way more trouble than any of us realizes, facing increasing demand for oil and natural gas, not really any new places to drill, (yeah theres Alaska, but that won't have the needed impact), and 70% of the industry expertise about to retire. It does not look good from where I stand.

Answers?
- Biodiesel, ethanol, wind, solar, conservation, more drilling, nuclear, build new refineries in the US for the first time in 30 years. You bet! The American farmer has a central role in this. None of these by themselves will do the trick by itself but until nuclear fusion or something like that comes along - everything helps! In short, this is one oilman that believes that this country needs to wean itself from imported oil ASAP! I would like to see something on the order of a "Manhattan Project" for energy independence. As someone pointed out we are nearing 70% oil imports!!

- Boycotting gas stations? It would make us feel good, may drive the price down a bit in the short term locally, but this is really not an issue of the local gas stations screwing people over. Oil price in real terms was $90 a barrel and we are nowhere near that.

Great discussion - just wanted to throw in my view.

Then there is the tar sands of Venezuela which are estimated to be even larger then what Alberta has.

I have an old textbook that stated that the single largest deposit of hydrocarbons in the world is - guess where - in the oil shales of wetern Colorado and Utah! Trouble is it is very difficult to extract.

On top of this I have to go to work tomorrow on what is suppose to be my day off because we can not keep up with the demand.

I hope you do boycott gas stations. I might get a day off next week if you do.

I've lived in and around the Oklahoma oil patch all my life. My parents worked for oil companies. Dad retired from one. In the early '70's, wells were plugged right and left because they weren't producing enough oil to make a profit from. Even today, those wells probably wouldn't be profitable. Two or three barrels of oil per day with 30 to 100 barrels of salt water disposal problems, well, you get the picture.

Anyway, over 70 percent of our oil is imported. That means that we have to pay whatever the overseas sellers of oil want. Two, the price of crude is only about 50 percent of a gallon of gas. Think taxes, refining, transportation, and yes, profit. All companies have to have a profit or they won't stay in business. Three, all of our American oil refineries are operating at capacity. They can't produce more gas. When demand goes up, the price goes up. Supply and demand, the basis of our economy.

So, boycotting an oil company or other such things won't help. Buying and driving a car that gets good gas mileage will help. The less we use, the less demand, the lower the price.

Also, ethanol and other fuel alternatives will help.

Now, I know that you can't pull a fifth wheel with a mini truck, but going to the grocery store in a 3/4 ton truck doesn't make sense either. (Although I have done that, too.) I'm now in the market for a small car for errands and selling one of my trucks.

Just my $.02 worth

OK-AL

With these guys, you mention "utility trailer" and they say, "12,000 or 14,000 GVW?" A "pickup" has the numbers 250 or greater, with eight or preferrably ten cylinders.

You'd have as much luck asking these guys and ladies to pass out flowers at a Joan Baez concert as to get them drive by a gas station.

There are some wonderful people on this forum, but they are all hooked on petroleum. Sorry.

The old stereotypes don't apply any more. Name calling won't help you find the truth.

I'm apalled over how ignorant I've been!!!!! !!

This info has been published several times in the National Papers so it's no secret. The looting and pillaging of Ontario Hydro started in earnest with Maurice Strong the illegitimate half brother of Paul Martian. Ron Osborn continued after wards in the same way he "right sized" Bell Canada. Then the Seven Horseman of the Apocalypse were brought in to solve the problems both real and invented. That left us with most of the experienced work force leaving with a servernce package. Eight Candu's that made power for about 4 cents per KW were shut down and imported power purchased for nearly double that on average. As a bonus we got to breath the coal stack fumes from the plants across the border that made that power. These seven consultants by the way had ties to the plants that sold us the replacement energy by the way. These seven consultants raided the company assets while collecting a generous wage plus pension. Eventually they were all fired or were about to be fired and charged with fraud when they ran home. The nut case Ron Houge who had a special exemption made to enter Ontario due to his criminal record for violence. He wound up and struck Kenny Hobbs, a Maintaince Manager in a meeting. They was something to do with a women being there too but that story is talked about. Ron had his butt hauled out by security. And Peter Higginbottom a director read the riot act to the managers and executives. They were to "know nothing" should the Durham Cops show up and ask questions. Of course that made the story spread even faster. Peter himself was turfed offsite for about a year just a month or so afterwards. Seems he was approving 60 hr per week overtime paycheques for his "girl friends" when they were working 35 or 37.5 hr weeks. He's back and placed higher than ever. The man has nine lives. OPG blew at least two billion to re-start one 540MW unit almost two years late. Bruce Power spent 800 million and started two 800MW units on time and on budget. If OPG Pickeirng was investigated for fraud..... ..

The perfect hand of the market is in the pocket of government manipulating conditions for itself.

The robber barons of the age of steel would have laughed at the idea of perfect competition. They allowed nothing of the sort. They would have approved of that guy named Milliken, though, because greed drove the system.

Ten years ago I gave up assigning the essay topic, "He who dies with the most toys, wins" to university-bound students. Intended to provoke outrage and pointed social commentary, instead it found agreement with the kids of the late '90's. Some felt a bit sad about it, but when I would rant about responsiblity to the larger group, needing to count for something more than personal greed, they politely tolerated my rants, but that was all.

My beef with neo-cons? They don't know what conservatism is. A conservative attempts in all things to work wisely for the greater good, the benefit of everyone, not to feed an individual's narcissism or greed or beligerence.

Yes, government can bungle and raise costs, but it can also dither its way to truly useful social products such as Tommy Douglas' medicare in Canada, the family allowance, old age pensions, and we mustn't forget the Canadian Pacific Railway and the Koyoto Accord.

In order for mankind to achieve great things, sometimes government must take a hand to accomplish what the individual cannot or will not do.

Boggles my mind to think of who thinks up boycott schemes like that.

But ya just can't expect everyone to be able to get gas from one station. And even if you accepted long lines, the individual company's don't have the capacity to refine & transport it. What's the biggest effect? The other guys close their stations and save on payroll, and wholesale the gas to the one station everyone's buying at...and since they no longer have payroll, their profits tick up a bit higher?

Exxon and Mobil are both the same company, so no sense boycotting one one month, the other another. Then yesterday I saw a TT with a Cumberland Farms Tractor (They own the Gulf brand now), hauling a Trailer that said Exxon.

Some of the other stuff can certainly help, especially individuals. Some I think is out of date -- the windows rolled down was based on '70s era air conditioners. My understanding today it actually hurts 'cause the wind resistance uses more energy to overcome than the newer, more efficient AC designs.

Curious...does E85 pay road taxes? That's a big difference

This plant has really been a win-win in my mind. The farmer's in the area are getting about a $.20/bu premium for their corn and if consumers get a reliable sorce of economical, clean burning gas, what the heck. I'm just waiting for the soy diesel plant to open :)

• Badger State Ethanol

Not that I think Dixie is a bad feller....I think his intentions are great...but reality cares little about good intentions.

One thing I have to ad....today's cars use more fuel with the windows down (due to aerodynamic drag) than with the windows up and a/c on. Now...if you've got the stones to turn off the a/c and roll down windows while stopped in traffic....that may save some fuel....good luck with that.

there are so many well trained accountants and business managers in companies today that I really cant see that the missmanagement argument.. unless its "GREED"missmanagement as in ENRON and MCI... these companies dont have the variables that a farm has to deal -- most of there variables are within certain expected parameters--- and they control their own SALES PRICE!