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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

starting an old gas enine

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Joe Bloggs

03-16-2005 17:27:42




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any ideas or sugestions on what I should do. I have a case 420b loader with a gas engine.It has not run for 8 years. I have got it so it has spark at all four spark plugs and I rebuilt the carburetor after removing the exhaust and inlet manifolds to clean them out.
the engin turns over freely but will not start it only wants to fire on 1 cylinder.
i am thinking that the valves that were open when it sat for so long are not able to shut properly.
how would i check for this or cure it with out removing the head.

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Coloken

03-17-2005 06:04:00




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 my 2 cents in reply to Joe Bloggs, 03-16-2005 17:27:42  
I Go along with all others except running very long without water. "O" rings can get hot. My daddy taught me to never prime with straight gas. All ways mix with oil or have the pistons well oiled. If valves are sticking and low compresion, towing works. Since you can't do that..belt pulley?--12 volt to 6 volt starter?..any way to spin the engine.



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old

03-16-2005 18:21:48




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 Re: starting an old gas enine in reply to Joe Bloggs, 03-16-2005 17:27:42  
Heres how I do it on almost all old tractor engines I get. I pull the plugs, even if it turns over easy. Fill each cylinder with tranny fluid, and let sit for a few hours. I then pull to plugs and spin the engine over to empty the cylinders. Install the plugs again and see if it will try to run. I also don't have any thing in the rad. once it starts I let it run with the empty rad for about 10 minutes. Shut it off and walk away from it for a couple hours. Fill check and fix any thing I have then found wrong and thats it. Did that just the other day on an H Farmall that had sat for 25 years and the engine was stuck and in 2 hours I was driveing it.

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bluediesel

03-17-2005 07:17:47




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 Re: starting an old gas enine in reply to old, 03-16-2005 18:21:48  
I'm just asking a simple question, for my own knowledge. What is the advantage of a dry radiator? If the head gasket was bad, or for whatever reason there was coolant leaking into the combustion chamber,this would not let it fire. Is this the reason or am i missing the point?



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old

03-17-2005 11:02:38




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 Re: starting an old gas enine in reply to bluediesel, 03-17-2005 07:17:47  
Well between the tranny fluid and then running it till it gets a little warmer then normal it tends to get stuck valves working and stuck rings to loosen up. On the H Farmall I did the other day one value was stcuk open and after I ran the engine like that and let it cool the valve is now working just like it should be. That cylinder even has good compression on it.



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Farmered

03-17-2005 03:05:52




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 Re: starting an old gas enine in reply to old, 03-16-2005 18:21:48  
10 minutes is way too long to operate an engine without coolant.



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old

03-17-2005 06:42:30




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 Re: starting an old gas enine in reply to Farmered, 03-17-2005 03:05:52  
At a high idle it isn't and I also stand right there to keep track of what its doing. I've done that on 30 plus engines and have never had any problems yet.



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Coloken

03-17-2005 08:02:20




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 Re: starting an old gas enine in reply to old, 03-17-2005 06:42:30  
I hear you, and am considering your opinion. The exta heat might be of value to loosen things up.
Kenny



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old

03-17-2005 11:04:44




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 Re: starting an old gas enine in reply to Coloken, 03-17-2005 08:02:20  
That is the reason to do that. The H I did that to the other day had a stuck valve and today its isn't stuck and its because of being warmed up a little more then normal. That cylinder has good compression now also.



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Bob M

03-16-2005 18:02:44




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 Re: starting an old gas enine in reply to Joe Bloggs, 03-16-2005 17:27:42  
Joe - Sounds like it's got several stuck valves.

If you remove the rocker box you might be able to free 'em by gently tapping the valve ends(not the pushrod ends) of the rockers on the stuck valves. Spraying the valve stems with PB Blaster or similar beforehand may help too.

If the valves stuck solid however you'll need to pull the head get 'em working again (been there done that...)

Good luck!

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Joe Bloggs

03-16-2005 17:52:34




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 Re: starting an old gas enine in reply to Joe Bloggs, 03-16-2005 17:27:42  
I have had the valve cover off and all looks well. I have tried 2cycle fuel. I have used 2 cans of starting fluid. i cant tow it because the backhoe and front bucket are in the ground. I have checked the timing over and over . the firing order is correct.if i take the spark plugs out and put some starting fluid down ther and try and start it the thing fires on all four but also smoke comes out the carburetor. also I am working out in the paddock with out help.

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bluediesel

03-17-2005 07:35:59




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 Re: starting an old gas enine in reply to Joe Bloggs, 03-16-2005 17:52:34  
If smoke comes out of the carb, then you know one or all intake valves are leaking. If the loader and backhoe are in the ground, why can't you crank it with the plugs out and lift that stuff up so you can tow start it. You said you were working alone so you would have to be really good to do this(ha). Also the spark may be weak, even if it did "fire". You really need a quarter inch of blue spark(in the air), to fire a spark plug under compression. Also it always seemed to help me to keep the throttle plate closed when cranking, after multiple primings, tries,etc.etc. And if this thing is shooting out of the carb, and your priming, and it's dripping, be careful of fire.Just my $.02

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JT

03-17-2005 07:04:40




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 Re: starting an old gas enine in reply to Joe Bloggs, 03-16-2005 17:52:34  
You might want to consider not using starting fluid. Starting fluid is very dry, and you have dry cylinders from sitting, this is compounding your problems. I would put a squirt of motor oil down each cylinder to at least get some oil in the cylinders so you are not trying this on a dry cylinder. Also a little oil will up the compression a little.



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wdtom

03-16-2005 17:39:53




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 Re: starting an old gas enine in reply to Joe Bloggs, 03-16-2005 17:27:42  
Remove the valve cover or if it is a flathead, the side cover and see if the valves are moving as they should. If they are stuck open you MAY be able to free them by carefully getting oil or WD40 or some such on the valve stem and gently tapping it open more. Be carefull about going to far.



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supergrumpy

03-16-2005 17:39:28




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 Re: starting an old gas enine in reply to Joe Bloggs, 03-16-2005 17:27:42  
them old rusty ones are lots of fun!!

very first thing, change the oil, need good clean oil inside the motor

do quick compression test for stuck valves, cheapo tester will work or even finger jammed tight onto spark plug hole will pinpoint a stuck valve, air pushing back thru carb is stuck intake valve

try adding some 2 stoke oil to your gas, might get some oil down on those rusty valve stems

some boys try bit of ether sprayed in the carb to help her get popping, but some boys try ether in just about anything, like the banging kinda sounds it makes

try towing or push starting it, might get it spinning fast enuf to light off some extra cylinders, once it runs, pour bit of auto trany fluid down carb real real slow, will smoke like nobodys business but lubes the valve stems real good

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dr.sportster

03-16-2005 20:05:26




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 Re: starting an old gas enine in reply to supergrumpy, 03-16-2005 17:39:28  
Supergrumpy said it if you cant at least blow your thumb off the spark plug hole you have a compression problem.I dont even go get my compression gauge the thumb doesnt lie.



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dr.sportster

03-16-2005 20:09:11




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 Re: starting an old gas enine in reply to dr.sportster, 03-16-2005 20:05:26  
Even with some hung valves it should be poppin and spitin on the other cyls,Sounds like fuel delivery hows the float level?



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dr.sportster

03-16-2005 20:12:18




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 Re: starting an old gas enine in reply to dr.sportster, 03-16-2005 20:09:11  
Joe sorry for so many posts but stop with the ether.Use drops of gasoline in the cyls and keep cheeking plugs for wet or dry to see if the carb is doing anything.



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