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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

OT: Generators in series?

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JistThinkin

03-09-2005 18:24:43




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I know that batteries can be hooked in series to get a higher potential across the string. The current is limited by the weakest in the string (or burns/explodes). But what about generator/alternators? Wonder if the coils of two windgenerators hooked in series (with diodes to limit current direction) would end up with an output voltage the sum of both?
That way smaller, multiple generators might be feasible. Anyone try this? What happened?

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JistThinkin

03-11-2005 06:47:45




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 Thanks for the input! in reply to JistThinkin, 03-09-2005 18:24:43  
I appreciate the time and experience offered here.



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FarmerDave

03-10-2005 20:03:35




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 Re: OT: Generators in series? in reply to JistThinkin, 03-09-2005 18:24:43  
You need some way to get them in phase. Other than the phase problem it would work fine. AC voltage is modeled as a phasor. Think of this as say a 120 inch( volt) stick that spins in a circle. Let's say it spins counter clockwise.

So East, North, West, South, back to east.

As the stick goes up the voltage rises to 120V. Then the stick goes down to west and zero volts.
Now the stick goes to south or -120V. Then it comes up to east at 0V.

If one generator is at north and the other is at south they cancel each other out. If both are at north at the same time 120V + 120V is 240V.

I suspect if you were good at motor/generators you could make it work.

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T_Bone

03-10-2005 19:09:13




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 Re: OT: Generators in series? in reply to JistThinkin, 03-09-2005 18:24:43  
Sorry I'm so late responding on this guys but it's takes alot more brain power to think about than I have right now.

I don't think you can stack inputs and of generators or alternators.

Output voltage is controlled by input votage to the fields.

If you excite the fields with 12v then 12v will be your output.

If you excite the fields with 24v then 24v will be the output voltage.

The generator/alternator is rated for so many watts output regulardless of the voltage. As the voltage is increased the output wattage is decreased.

The voltage regulator controls the wattage ouput.

After the voltage is ouput, like on a terminal block, then you could series the voltage for a total voltage gain and a current gain if battery's were used.

I series three 115vac- 12vdc transformer battery chargers for a 36vdc output for my golf cart battery charging. Here my amp charging rate is the lowest amperage charging rate of the smallest 12vdc charger or 6amps. I'm useing one 10amp, one 50amp and one 6amp battery charger and output is 40v@6amps at maximum charging.

T_Bone

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buickanddeere

03-10-2005 08:39:49




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 Re: OT: Generators in series? in reply to JistThinkin, 03-09-2005 18:24:43  
One large generator is cheaper, more efficient and less maintaince than 2+ small units working together.



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Bob M

03-10-2005 08:05:24




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 Re: OT: Generators in series? in reply to JistThinkin, 03-09-2005 18:24:43  
Will work in theory.

However as one of the posts below suggests at least one of the alternators would have to be isolated from ground. Or you could use “isolated ground” type alternators and simply connect the outputs in series. (On isolated ground units the frame is not grounded. Rather there are separate “+” and “-“ output terminals. Heavy truck alternators are often this type...)

In addition you would need to wire the alternator fields in series, then supply the fields from a single regulator calibrated for the combined output voltage. Otherwise individual regulators on each alternator will likely go unstable (oscillate) and be unable to provide control.

Bottom line is it will probably easier to install a single alternator with the output voltage you desire.

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Red Dave

03-10-2005 06:06:59




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 Re: OT: Generators in series? in reply to JistThinkin, 03-09-2005 18:24:43  
Would work in theory, but in practice it may be a problem to get them to work together. It seems to me that you would need to figure out a way to get them to equaly share voltage. By that I mean if you want 24 volts, you would want each one to supply 12, not one running at 16 and the other at 8, or some combination like that.
Maybe disable the internal regulators and use one regulator to conrol both?

Might take a little experimentation to make it work.

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Gerald J.

03-09-2005 19:42:52




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 Re: OT: Generators in series? in reply to JistThinkin, 03-09-2005 18:24:43  
So long as you don't run into the grounded case problem mentioned below you can run the generators in series. Will work fine. But you get the same results with one generator by turning it faster. Twice as fast if its a permanent magnet field gets twice the voltage. One is often simpler than two.

Gerald J.



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Rlach

03-09-2005 18:48:27




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 Re: OT: Generators in series? in reply to JistThinkin, 03-09-2005 18:24:43  
I would say it is possible BUT will work on a wood or insulated bench only; if both alternators are grounded on the same chassis it will not work and create a short circuit. The second alternator negative must be connected to the live output of the first alternator and this is impossible if both alt. grounds are bolted to the same chassis.

Let say you have 2 cars(12 volts negative ground) side by side but not in contact; now you connect the negative lead of the second car to the positive lead of the first car, you can measure 24 volts between the negative lead of the first car and the positive lead of the second car; now if you link both chassis together, you get a nice spark- short circuit.

Not sure I explained clearly, but I am sure of the end result.
Rlach

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Rlach

03-09-2005 19:06:24




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 Re: OT: Generators in series? in reply to Rlach, 03-09-2005 18:48:27  
One more thing :
you will get better results if alternators are in phase; automotive alt are 3-phase, and their output are rectified with diodes; so the resulting voltage is rectified not truly continuous (DC); since 3-phase alt. are separated by 120°, there could be some "fighting" (first alt decreasing on the positive cycle and increasing on the second but on positive cycle also) if not in phase. It will be worse with two 1 phase alternators.
Rlach

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Gerald J.

03-09-2005 19:44:29




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 Re: OT: Generators in series? in reply to Rlach, 03-09-2005 19:06:24  
Because the phases of the three phase alternator overlap and the rectifier is full wave, effectively a 6 phase rectifier, the ripple isn't great.

Gerald J.



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