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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

OT: Teenage Labor Laws

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Rauville

03-01-2005 16:07:48




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Just reading today's newspaper, and one article in particular seems to have some discussion value. Last fall in our county there was a tragic farm accident in which a 15 year old boy lost his arm in a grain auger while working part-time at the neighbor's farm. Today's article explains how the farmer has been fined $10,670.00 by the Department of Labor for violations of the Fair Labor Standards Act.
The FLSA prohibits employees under the age of 16 from operating: "grain combines, hay balers, auger conveyors, PTO equipped tractors over 20 horsepower, and the unloading mechanism of a wagon or trailer."
I wonder if all employers of part-time teenage farm workers are fully aware of the extent of this law? Apparently not.

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bill b va

03-02-2005 15:05:07




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 Re: OT: Teenage Labor Laws in reply to Rauville, 03-01-2005 16:07:48  

it is quite ok and encoursaged to play silly a$$ games and sports that is much more dangerous . how old for a murtercycle license ? i would much rather have a kid working farms than on a motor cycle . i wonder what the $10000 FINE DID FOR THE BOY ? nothing i am sure .



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George in Biloxi

03-02-2005 07:23:16




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 Re: OT: Teenage Labor Laws in reply to Rauville, 03-01-2005 16:07:48  
This was e-mailed to me, thought I would share.

People over 30 should be dead. Here's why.

According to today's regulators and bureaucrats, those of us who were
kids in the 40's, 50's, 60's, or even maybe the early probably shouldn't
have survived.

Our baby cribs were covered with bright colored lead-based paint.

We had no childproof lids on medicine bottles, doors or cabinets, .
and when we rode our bikes, we had no helmets.

(Not to mention the risks we took hitchhiking.)

As children, we would ride in cars with no seatbelts or air bags. Riding in the back of a pickup truck on a warm day was always a special treat.

We drank water from the garden hose and not from a bottle.

Horrors!

We ate cupcakes, bread and butter, and drank soda pop with sugar in it,
but we were never overweight because we were always outside playing.

We shared one soft drink with four friends, from one bottle, and no
one
actually died from this.

We would spend hours building our go-carts out of scraps and then rode
down the hill, only to find out we forgot the brakes..

After running into the bushes a few times , we learned to solve the problem.

We would leave home in the morning and play all day , as long as we were
back when the street lights came on .

No one was able to reach us all day.

NO CELL PHONES!!!!!

Unthinkable!

We did not have Playstations, Nintendo 64, X-Boxes, no video games at
all, no 99 channels on cable, video tape movies, surround sound,
personal cell phones, personal computers, or Internet chat rooms .

We had friends! We went outside and found them. We played dodge ball,
and sometimes, the ball would really hurt.

We fell out of trees , got cut and broke bones and teeth , and there were
no lawsuits from these accidents.They were accidents. No one was to blame but us.
Remember accidents?

We had fights and punched each other and got black and blue and
learned
to get over it.

We made up games with sticks and tennis balls and ate worms , and although
we were told it would happen, we did not put out very many eyes, nor did
the worms live inside us forever.

We rode bikes or walked to a friend's home and knocked on the door, or
rang the bell or just walked in and talked to them.

Little League had tryouts and not everyone made the team. Those who
didn't had to learn to deal with disappointment.

Some students weren't as smart as others, so they failed a grade and
were held back to repeat the same grade.

Horrors!

Tests were not adjusted for any reason. Our actions were our own.
Consequences were expected. The idea of a parent bailing us out if we
broke a law was unheard of. They actually sided with the law. Imagine that!

This generation has produced some of the best risk-takers, problem
solvers and inventors, ever.

The past 50 years have been an explosion of innovation and new ideas.

We had freedom, failure, success and responsibility, and we learned
how
to deal with it all. And you're one of them! Congratulations!

Please pass this on to others who have had the luck to grow up as kids,
before lawyers and government regulated our lives, for our own good !!!!!

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DqaveInMI

03-02-2005 02:46:51




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 Re: OT: Teenage Labor Laws in reply to Rauville, 03-01-2005 16:07:48  
I've gotta chime in on the side of the minority. Few kids grow up on a farm or even have experience around dangerous equipment. What you and I consider common sense is not inborn. It's developed with experience and most kids don't have any. They play video games where crashes and volience doesn't hurt. In MI, they can work around some dangerous equipment if they take a vocational course with proper training first (11th grade) and work during school senior year in the second year of the vocational program.

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David B

03-01-2005 21:07:13




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 Re: OT: Teenage Labor Laws in reply to Rauville, 03-01-2005 16:07:48  
I feel for the kid, but the kid wanted a job. When you work on a farm, you should know that it is not a safe job. If you want to make money safely, buy a lotto ticket and hope you win, or McDonald's is always hiring.
I've always been taught safety about PTO machines, and applied it. When I was young, I helped with augers and grinders. I'm 18, no accident yet, and there won't be because I'm careful and use my head.
Plus, how many kids have to help Dad because they can't afford other help? That's the classic "I feed and cloth and shelter you, come work it off."
My two cents.

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aFORDable

03-01-2005 19:43:56




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 Re: OT: Teenage Labor Laws in reply to Rauville, 03-01-2005 16:07:48  
Like all laws, child labor laws are there because of abuse in the past. A 15 yr. old has no business around a grain auger. Ignorance of the law is no excuse. Either the farmer knew the law and ignored it or he didn't study child labor laws enough to know. I'd say he got off easy. I'll bet he wouldn't take $10,000 for his arm! Children must be protected in our society because there are too many adults that will abuse them. I do agree that there are some cases that just don't make sense, such as having a legal drivers license but can't drive a pickup on the job. A farm can be a deadly place for any kid or adult. Especially thos non-farm kids who are doing jobs beyond their years with machinery.

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thejdman01

03-01-2005 19:17:11




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 Re: OT: Teenage Labor Laws in reply to Rauville, 03-01-2005 16:07:48  
just thinking any of you guys remember the old 2 banger jd's i remember we were so young my brother and i would grab the flywheel to start it and one would pull down on one side the other would push up on the other side. i dont remember the exact age, we were young very young even with 2 of us we had a heck of a time turning it over anyone remember those times we done that when we were kids and never thought twice about it. anyone else have those experiences as kids. yeah it was dumb yeah we shoudl probably be dead by now but we learned alot and have alot of fond memories from it my brother got a suit job it wasnt for him(farming) but i wouldnt trade it

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thejdman01

03-01-2005 19:13:17




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 Re: OT: Teenage Labor Laws in reply to Rauville, 03-01-2005 16:07:48  
that is very very tragic luckily i still have all limbs intact and hope to keep it that way. i have given up all hearing in my left ear from farm equipment and hearing aid in the right. any 15 year old that has been around the farm knows the dangers and if he still wanted to be there was getting paid or even working for trade(gas to go to school in his car, i have even worked deals with local kids you help me bale hay and i will give you hay for your 4-h goats and animals). it was most likely a freak accident that could have happened to a 45 year old. at 15 if had been around farms he knew the dangers just a freak accident. i do agree that he should be compensated for his loss by the insurance but dont agree that he should be finded for violating child labor laws. some kids like doing it some kids its born into his blood. its good for kids to a be working b be on a farm. not out doing drugs causeing problems. laot of farm kids have been around tractor etc are safe responsible drivers. its good the kids are out working anywhere but farm life i think gives them even more but doing anything is great. too many kids i see are just lazy woudlnt even move to save their own life. thats sad that he got fined for child labor laws i agree the kid shoudl be compensated for his loss but not fined. i have known some farmers around that abuse kids and stick them under grain bins etc in crawl spaces shoveling out corn etc with no respirators etc i think that is a bad thing to be having a kid to do and i dont know the details but from the sounds of it that wasnt the case here that the farmer told the kid hey stand here and watch over this fast spinning object and dont let it quit or something like that. its sad cause like i say i have given hay and straw to kids who help me bale hay and they used it for thier goats etc for 4-h gave kids gas on farm to get to school for help too

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Can't even use my name

03-01-2005 18:13:52




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 Re: OT: Teenage Labor Laws in reply to Rauville, 03-01-2005 16:07:48  
Be it the law 99% of the time it isn't inforced. Just like the speed limits. Unfortunately for the boy he lost his arm and unfortunately for the farmer the law decided to fine him. Accidents happen, and that is a law of nature!



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JA in Va

03-01-2005 18:07:49




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 Re: OT: Teenage Labor Laws in reply to Rauville, 03-01-2005 16:07:48  
Ten thousand and change is less than I'd trade
an arm for.If this were your son how would you
feel?If you were responsible for this accident
how would you feel?I've seen this from both sides.Green kid,eager to please,does whatever old hand says not knowing how stupid or dangerous
it might be.Train him ,watch him,show him the
results if he screws up and pray social services
don't find out what I've asked him to do.Have
him rake leaves,better than telling his mama
why he can't ever tie his shoes again.

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old blue

03-01-2005 18:07:06




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 Re: OT: Teenage Labor Laws in reply to Rauville, 03-01-2005 16:07:48  
I think this kind of thing has gotten so out of control lately. I'm 17 and would have loved to get a job that i actually would like to have but cant get hired to do anything im capable of doing. For the youth of today that are good with their hands and hard labor they have to try and create their own work by soliciting, they cant just go out and so ok i woudl be a good farm hand or a good hardware store worker. you just cant get hired. I've worked at two different jobs for very short periods of time because the job was jsut so ridiculous it wasnt funny. i actually told my last real boss that i had a more lucritive job offer to shovel manure at my uncles farm and that id sooner do that for nothing than work at that place one minute longer. These food industry places hire all these 16 yr olds and then tell them oh your not allowed to wash this or that because the law prohibits but you still get chewed out if it aitn done. it doesnt make much sense. a 16 yr old can work a fryer with 350 degree oil but they cant work at home depot. this worlds going to the dogs

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lgc

03-01-2005 17:50:04




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 Re: OT: Teenage Labor Laws in reply to Rauville, 03-01-2005 16:07:48  
I have had some experience with the US dept Labor. They fined us and other business locally for employing under 18 to drive delivery Trucks. Actually pickups. Never mind the kids drove their own to work. They went back several years checking. They do intend to collect come money. I think walmart is experience that now in the news. With under 18 operating cardboard baling machines. Some good to the law. BUt also feel there is some looking for deep pockets.

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thresherman

03-01-2005 17:27:11




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 Re: OT: Teenage Labor Laws in reply to Rauville, 03-01-2005 16:07:48  
It's to bad about what is going on. Probably just a freck accident. My first job off our place was baling hay for the neighbors. I started at 13 in the hay mow. At 15 I got the gravey job in the field loading wagons and driving tractor. To bad kids can't experience that anymore. Maybe they can learn some important stuff, like asking if you want fries with that.



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ejr-IA.

03-01-2005 17:19:39




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 Re: OT: Teenage Labor Laws in reply to Rauville, 03-01-2005 16:07:48  
I have taught the 4H tractor safety class to many young adults through the years.After completion they get a certificate that inables them to work on the farm.That helps them to understand the many hazards on the farm and how easy accidents can happen to them and others.Makes me wonder if the young man had taken the safety course.



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farmered

03-02-2005 05:18:55




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 Re: OT: Teenage Labor Laws in reply to ejr-IA., 03-01-2005 17:19:39  
ejr-IA, I too taught 4-H tractor safety for many years. It still hurts that one of my former students was killed in a freak tractor accident even though it ws nearly fifty years ago. He was backing a spreader into a low shed when his foot slipped off an icy clutch and the steering wheel pinned him to the top of the low doorway. You just can't cover every situation. Maybe his dad should have bought a low utility tractor or built a new calf barn which was more suited to modern machinery. This boy was older too, 17 or 18. Anyway it still hurts. Ed

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Hugh MacKay

03-01-2005 17:12:46




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 Re: OT: Teenage Labor Laws in reply to Rauville, 03-01-2005 16:07:48  
Rauville: Kind of a shame what has happened across North America. I've seen my dad with a dozen teenagers around the farm. They operated everything, and did it safely. We enjoyed the luxury of never having a lost time accident in two generations. As I look back over dad's students, not one of them has ever been seriously injured in an accident since, be it work place, on the highway, etc. We are going to be hard pressed to give these kids the kinds of safety experience they received on farms. What is learned in those crucial years from 8 to 16 so very very valuable.

I realize that from time to time an accident will occur on a farm somewhere, but is it any more prevalant than amoung kids with nothing to do.

My dad used to say, " the only way to stay out of trouble was do nothing." I'm not sure that will work anymore.

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Mark - IN.

03-01-2005 19:37:21




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 Re: OT: Teenage Labor Laws in reply to Hugh MacKay, 03-01-2005 17:12:46  
I thoroughly agree that a lot of things are instilled in the minds of people at those young ages, including but not limited to work ethic and respect. The problem as I see it is that legislators whom more out of touch with reality, than with, are running the show.

I heard on the radio this morning about some new product that costs like $275.00 per ??? allows the installation of a black box in automobiles aimed at making teenagers better drivers, so that parents can monitor their driving "real time". So, if the youngster drives too fast, hits the brakes too hard, the parents will be able to make the horn honk (and whatever else) so that the youngsters know that they've been bad, and their parents know it "real time". The libs doing the talk show went for it, "great idea, blah, blah, blah, and is voluntary". Most callers into the show (parents) slammed it. The libs then went on, "If saves one life, just onnnnn e life, then is a great idea". Yeah, if saves one, just onnnnne life, wonder how long is gonna be voluntary. It also had me wondering what parent is gonna sit at the kitchen table monitoring this thing as their youngsters are out and about, and what they used to do with their time before got this new greatest thing in the world gizmo?

Don't get me wrong. I'm not abusive or mean, but I do think that there are some gambles in life that either end great, and sometimes, don't, unfortunately.

Mark

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MSM

03-01-2005 16:46:25




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 Re: OT: Teenage Labor Laws in reply to Rauville, 03-01-2005 16:07:48  
I'm surprised they could even find a teenager that wanted to work,round here we have to hire Mexicans cause the kids won't work.



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John (C-IL)

03-01-2005 16:34:09




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 Re: OT: Teenage Labor Laws in reply to Rauville, 03-01-2005 16:07:48  
All I can say is that I work for the local cooperative elevator. We aren't allowed to hire anyone younger than 18. We catch a lot of heat from the local community because we don't hire the local high school kids as interns, but it is VERY clear, labor laws don't allow it.



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Ol Chief

03-01-2005 17:36:18




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 Re: OT: Teenage Labor Laws in reply to John (C-IL), 03-01-2005 16:34:09  
I just re read the previous posts an am supprised to learn that teen age kids in school are now young adults.This just touches a tender vein when we have already lowered the adult age from 21 to 18.As said -Go figure.



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Nebraska Cowman

03-01-2005 16:34:00




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 Re: OT: Teenage Labor Laws in reply to Rauville, 03-01-2005 16:07:48  
But if that same boy commits certain crimes he will be tried as an adult. Go figure.



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this law is messed up....

03-01-2005 17:33:11




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 Re: OT: Teenage Labor Laws in reply to Nebraska Cowman, 03-01-2005 16:34:00  
I think they need to change the law, I am 16, and have worked on a farm since I was 12, baled since I was 10, not gotten hurt yet, my bosses son lost his right arm when he was 14, but it can happen to anybody, old or young. my point is if they(the kid"s") want to work on a farm then let them, as long as they are going to school.
just my .02 cents worth



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Ol Chief

03-01-2005 17:23:35




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 Re: OT: Teenage Labor Laws in reply to Nebraska Cowman, 03-01-2005 16:34:00  
I was not under the impression that any laws were necessary to protect kids from working.I can"t find anyone under age thirty five that is willing to work.When I drive past the local high school and see about a quarter of a million dollars worth of very late model automobiles in the student parking lot I more readily understand why kids won"t work at least in my area of Texas. Not sure how much more protection they need beyond Mommy and Daddy providing all the toys. I think the laws prevent those who may be willing to work from gaining some good practical and useful knowledge before the age of 18.These days they are allowed to vote at 18 or go in the service without ever knowing what a days work is.

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