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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

In place crankshaft grinding?

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Rauville

02-15-2005 08:29:25




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Just saw today's "Article Spotlight" about having to remove the JD 2010 engine in order to grind the crankshaft because of a bad rod bearing.
Got to thinking about years ago when a local machinist had a portable grinder. He would go around the country grinding crankshaft journals in place without having to remove the engine from the vehicle or tractor.
Is this still done today? The machinist I remember was killed in a car accident on his route, and as far as I know, nobody else ever took up his trade.

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Johnski

02-15-2005 18:20:17




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 Re: In place crankshaft grinding? in reply to Rauville, 02-15-2005 08:29:25  
I wonder about that sometimes too. I had one done on a truck back about 20 years ago. The guy was about 70 years old and all he did was grind cranks and axle spindles on trucks. He had a rig with an electric motor,a cable drive, and a gear that he would bolt in the starter hole after pulling the starter and it would turn the engine by the ring gear. As I recall he was there the better part of a day and charged us 100$. Guess that explains why nobody took over for him. ;>)

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J. Schwiebert

02-15-2005 18:01:38




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 Re: In place crankshaft grinding? in reply to Rauville, 02-15-2005 08:29:25  
Rauville: Was that person in western Ohio?



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Willy-N

02-15-2005 14:20:26




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 Re: In place crankshaft grinding? in reply to Rauville, 02-15-2005 08:29:25  
Thru a rod in the 70s once in Redding California. Did not have much money being in the service and returning to the base. Found a Junk Yard just out of town and this old guy said he could help me out. I dropped the pan, pulled the head to replace the rod and he hooked a set of rollers to the rear wheels to turn the drive line with. Put it in gear so the Crank would turn. He bolted this grinder that sorta looked like a drill motor to the pan bolts and the grinder followed the Rod around in the block as the engine turned to re/grind the journel. Here charged me $25.00 for the used rod and re grind I bought a set of gaskets did all the other work and ended up repairing it for less then $50.00 complete. Never forget that guy I think he was having fun doing it and being a soldier he cut me some slack on the price. Drove that Dodge Slant 6 Panel back up to Fort Lewis, Washington with out a problem and for several years after that! Those were the good old days they won't even look at a car for less than $50.00 now let along pervide parts and fix it to!! Mark H.

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Will Dave

02-15-2005 13:24:19




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 Re: In place crankshaft grinding? in reply to Rauville, 02-15-2005 08:29:25  
I had one of those grinders in the 70s. I bought it from a closing Chevrolet dealer. The one I had a head similar to a drill press. Instead of a drill table, it had rollers. The grinding rock was on one side of the journal, the rollers touched the other, It had an attachment that was placed under the rear wheels of the car/truck. You put the auto in gear, the attachment turned the crankshaft by way of the powertrain. The machine head was narrow and it bobbed up and down on the throws. The dealer said that with the increased popularity of automatics, combined with the need for a better engine repair, they quit usuing theirs in the 60s.

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george md

02-15-2005 10:41:38




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 Re: In place crankshaft grinding? in reply to Rauville, 02-15-2005 08:29:25  
Rauville,

There are quite a number of reasons why portable crank grinding is a thing of the past. Most of todays cranks are heat treated alloy steel and when there is a bearing failure much heat is generated causing warpage, cracking, and a change in the heat treatment ( making it either brittle or soft )and very likely to break. The other problem is that a crank doesn't wear evenly around, usually most wear is on the outer side toward compression. A portable does not set the stroke lenght, it will make a reasonably round journal centered on the worn parts of the
journal and this shortens the effective length
of the stroke , not a good thing in a diesel that depends of compression to run . I have the remains of a grinder like the one in the
picture , I might use it for an odd job in the
lathe , but not in an engine.

george

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Mike Burdick

02-15-2005 09:56:40




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 Re: In place crankshaft grinding? in reply to Rauville, 02-15-2005 08:29:25  
Here"s a link to what is claimed as a "Winona Tool Portable Crankgrinder".

You be the judge...



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Earl S.

02-16-2005 06:31:44




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 Re: In place crankshaft grinding? in reply to Mike Burdick, 02-15-2005 09:56:40  
I have used both the Sunnen and the Winona.Clean up after grinding, inside the engine was a big factor.It was fun to learn how to grind. After that it was the worst job in the shop.I decided one day with water dripping under the car that was my last one.I was getting a slight electric tingle I stopped put a ground wire on the grinder finished the crank and went back to the shop owner and told him it was me or the grinder was going.That was the last the job for the old grinder.It was amazing how accurate it would grind you had to leave about .0005 to polish which you did by hand.No diesel cranks you couldnt put a radius on the stone.Earl In Illinois

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Larry from MD

02-15-2005 10:33:18




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 Re: In place crankshaft grinding? in reply to Mike Burdick, 02-15-2005 09:56:40  
I have allso seen clamp type things with handels that they use.Your starter has to turn the engine while the handel is held.I was at a place where a fellow got out of his truck with one and was going to do a wd9.A few days later they had it together running.



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Coloken

02-15-2005 08:54:02




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 Yes in reply to Rauville, 02-15-2005 08:29:25  
Yes. I know for a fact that it was done. Never saw it or the machine though. Buddy, who was a mechanic, had it done on a customer's car. He did not like to do it though, because of possible grit etc.left in the engine. It was a cheap way to get an engine back running.



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dr.sportster

02-15-2005 08:35:24




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 Re: In place crankshaft grinding? in reply to Rauville, 02-15-2005 08:29:25  
Sounds like American folklore.How did he spin the crank while grinding?



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Earl S.

02-16-2005 06:42:33




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 Re: In place crankshaft grinding? in reply to dr.sportster, 02-15-2005 08:35:24  
There were 3 types of drive rear wheel drive on stard trans.jacked up the car,truck double roller drive under the wheel let it down put car in 2or 3 gear .We had a special switch as to start it turn the same time your grinder came on ,If you look at the previous post you will see a little hand wheel that was your feed on the grinder. The other drives were off the starter ring gear. Sunnen also had a mickey mouse drive it set up on the front fenders with a V belt to front of crank. Earl In Illinois

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Rauville

02-15-2005 08:52:34




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 Re: In place crankshaft grinding? in reply to dr.sportster, 02-15-2005 08:35:24  
No...It was done. His name was Mr. Cecil Halvorson, and as I remember it, the "grinder" would turn on the rod journal. He had a excellent machine shop, but this was always his specialty.



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Allan in NE

02-15-2005 08:52:02




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 Re: In place crankshaft grinding? in reply to dr.sportster, 02-15-2005 08:35:24  
Dr,

He didn't move the crank. The grinder 'walks' around the throw.

Allan



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dr.sportster

02-15-2005 09:05:32




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 Re: In place crankshaft grinding? in reply to Allan in NE, 02-15-2005 08:52:02  
I see.Rauville I apologize for my doubting.Well they still sell a piston knurler and a valve guide knurler.I should know not to question American ingenuity.Some of those old "primitive"methods worked quite well I geuss.



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Coloken

02-15-2005 08:59:15




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 picture? in reply to Allan in NE, 02-15-2005 08:52:02  
I see that many have never heard of it. Would be nice if some one could post a picture of the machine. Times it could be a life saver on and old tractor.
Kenny



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oldart

02-15-2005 15:18:24




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 Re: picture? in reply to Coloken, 02-15-2005 08:59:15  
we had a man come grind cranks in the cac or truck then take the rod and pour a new bearing and machine it the journal size . had him turn one to 0.0125 under size once it ran for some time around here a cheap fix. ort



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lucasss

02-15-2005 17:50:38




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 Re: picture? in reply to oldart, 02-15-2005 15:18:24  
used one back in the 60,s,seems the old timers at that time were used to using them and they put me on it manytimes. it used a moter that turned the flywheel slowly while it ground the journal. after about 73 it just sat on the shelf and was never used,like the the piston grinder.used to get pistons and grind the skirts to watever the bore size was.then someone had the bright idea of making pistons to the size you needed when you bought them so you wouldnt have to grind them. lucas

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