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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Just Curious

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Jrry

01-31-2005 09:53:31




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When "spark is retarded" what exactly has happened. I know this is done to prevent kick back when hand cranking but I don't know how it works.




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Jrry

02-01-2005 06:16:01




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 Re: Just Curious in reply to Jrry, 01-31-2005 09:53:31  
thanks guys for all the responses. I see how it works now and makes sence.



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Stan(PA)

01-31-2005 22:03:50




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 Re: Just Curious in reply to Jrry, 01-31-2005 09:53:31  
Some days I just can"t win :) I"m a little "retarded" my ownself! Actually, I"ve always looked at "advanced" and "retarded" in the simple way I explained to Jrry. Makes it easy to understand why you retard when hand cranking. Technically speaking, if the timing is "advanced" too much, you need to "retard" the timing some to get it to the proper "advance". In my day, specs would call for a setting of X degrees advance, used interchangably with TDC, but you could still retard the timing from any point. .....if I thought I knew what I was talking about originally, I"m all confused now :)

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Stan(PA)

01-31-2005 09:59:06




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 Re: Just Curious in reply to Jrry, 01-31-2005 09:53:31  
It just means that the spark occurs AFTER Top Dead Center of the compression stroke. "Retarded" is the opposite of "Advanced", which means the spark occurs BEFORE TDC..... ..Stan



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dr.sportster

02-01-2005 14:05:09




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 Re: Just Curious in reply to Stan(PA), 01-31-2005 09:59:06  
Stan, You have defined it exactly as stated in the glossary of this website.I just read it today.



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dr.sportster

01-31-2005 10:35:49




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 Re: Just Curious in reply to Stan(PA), 01-31-2005 09:59:06  
Stan,not to be a wise guy but retarted is referring to spark that occurs after the optimum time.In other words if the motor fires at 30 degrees Btdc anything after that spec is consider retarded timing.Any occurence later than the intended timing.Late timing.Too advanced is early timing.



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Stan(PA)

01-31-2005 10:03:21




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 By the way.... in reply to Stan(PA), 01-31-2005 09:59:06  
Retarding the ignition prevents kickback because the piston has already passed TDC, and is heading downstroke in the correct rotation. Advanced ignition can cause kickback because the piston HAS NOT reached TDC and may go down in the reverse direction, thus kicking back.....Stan



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dr.sportster

01-31-2005 10:42:35




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 Re: By the way.... in reply to Stan(PA), 01-31-2005 10:03:21  
Retarded timing[advance weights not yet affected by centrifigal force] is usually still firing plugs before TDC.You are very close to being correct and Im not trying to be a know it all.



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dr.sportster

01-31-2005 19:09:22




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 Re: By the way.... in reply to dr.sportster, 01-31-2005 10:42:35  
Stan, I apoligize. I imagine if you were cranking you would like it to fire very late to protect your arm bone.jdemaris is right probably alot of manuals would refer to it like that.



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jdemaris

01-31-2005 18:15:08




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 Neither of you are wrong in reply to dr.sportster, 01-31-2005 10:42:35  
You are absolutely correct, but so is the other guy. You are using a more modern working definition of "retarded timing", whereas the other guy is using a definition of the words "retarded" and "timing" accurately, but separately. I'm not trying to be an as*hole here, but word use changes over time and also where it is used. With many engines that have some sort of automatic timing advance, the retarded timing specification is 2 degrees BTDC or 0 degrees - i.e. TDC. Point being, very often retarded timing specs for an engine are still occurring before top dead center -not after - they are just referring to the timing in its "unadvanced" mode. Now, take some instructions written in 1915 from Dykes Motor Manual in regard to manual spark control and car starting: "SPARK OCCURS EITHER IN AN ADVANCED POSITION WHEN (OR BEFORE) THE PISTON IS ON TOP OF THE COMPRESSION STOKE, OR IN A RETARDED POSITION WHEN THE PISTON IS PAST THE TOP OF DEAD CENTER OF THE COMPRESSION STOKE."

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Farmall Don

01-31-2005 10:41:00




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 Re: By the way.... in reply to Stan(PA), 01-31-2005 10:03:21  
My M kicked back once a few years back when I was hand cranking it. Everyone seemed to thing the handle went a full circle around and wrapped me on the head and made me retarded. I didnt think so, but I dont think I have much spark up there.



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Allan in NE

01-31-2005 10:28:45




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 Re: By the way.... in reply to Stan(PA), 01-31-2005 10:03:21  
Boy!

Ya learn something new every day on here and this most certainly has got to be my problem!

I'm retarded, don't have any spark anymore and have never made a kickback in my life. Come to think of it, I havn't ran since 1968 either.

I sure feel okay tho. :>)

Allan



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RAB

01-31-2005 13:22:30




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 Re: By the way.... in reply to Allan in NE, 01-31-2005 10:28:45  
OK Allen, you know you can be seized for years and still be got back into running condition - even if it"s only for a parade!!
Diffrent if big end is out metal and crank is completely ground down!
Regards, RAB



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