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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

coils

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dangley

01-28-2005 21:03:04




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the hot coils are supposed to increase power and economy on older jd's. How much?




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Jerry/MT

01-29-2005 17:41:09




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 Re: coils in reply to dangley, 01-28-2005 21:03:04  
Hotter coils and/or electronic ignitions will not incease the power of an engine. They will just make it easier to start, run smoother, etc. The power is determined by the basic compression ratio and the displacement, with the intake valve size and cam lift and timing etc having some influence.



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buickanddeere

01-29-2005 11:43:05




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 Re: coils in reply to dangley, 01-28-2005 21:03:04  
As long as your ignition system has enough energy & voltage to jump the gap with an adequate spark. Making the spark "bigger" adds no more HP.
A high rpm, high compression or exotic fuel engine takes more energy to jump that plug gap. So the "Blitzburg" ignition systems are required to ensure an adequate spark.
Taking your JD B and adding a straight pipe, the carb off an A or G, high octane gasoline and a high output ignition system. Will not increase that B's HP up to G's HP. It might make the stock Nebraska number for a “B”.
The advantage of electronic system is no point contacts to get corroded or worn. The sudden stoppage of current to the coil will throw a stronger spark than a points system where current gradually drops as the points arc open.
1.5 ohm for 6V, 3.0 ohm for 12V without bypass starting which means no ballast resistor. And 1.5 ohm with a ballast resistor on a 12V machine with bypass starting. I have to run my writing through the spell checker to catch most of the errors. We should keep track this year how many times somebody asks about “hydrolics”

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dr.sportster

01-29-2005 15:25:35




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 Re: coils in reply to buickanddeere, 01-29-2005 11:43:05  
Sorry Buick I know you dont like misspellors.Hey I know how to spell weldor[the man]as opposed to welder[the machine].Even weldors call themselves welders.



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buickanddeere

01-30-2005 11:48:28




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 Re: coils in reply to dr.sportster, 01-29-2005 15:25:35  
dr.sportster

You don't have to apologise. You are thinking and giving it a good try. It's some of these other interesting people who never proof read, spellcheck or even think their statement through. before hitting the enter key.



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dr.sportster

01-30-2005 12:14:53




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 Re: coils in reply to buickanddeere, 01-30-2005 11:48:28  
Ive done it.



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dr.sportster

01-29-2005 08:44:10




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 Re: coils in reply to dangley, 01-28-2005 21:03:04  
There are three ways to make more power;an increase in any one of the following:mechanical efficiancy, this would be like removing a bushing and replacing it with a bearing.Volumetric efficientcy,an increase in the engines ability to become a better heat pump an example would be ported heads.Or how much increased air fuel mix can flow through the engine.And thermal efficiency:the engines ability to dissipate the heat of combustion immediatly after it occurs.Mechanical efficency is pretty good from original design and may be difficult to improve.Thermal efficiency is also difficult to improve.So most seeking more power will try to increase the volumetric efficiency as this is where the most untapped power is lying so to speak.

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dr.sportster

01-29-2005 08:49:59




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 Re: coils in reply to dr.sportster, 01-29-2005 08:44:10  
PLease disregard my spelling problems with the word efficiency.And what Im trying to say is leave your tractor all stock.



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RandyR

01-29-2005 08:24:09




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 Re: coils in reply to dangley, 01-28-2005 21:03:04  
These comments are right, a hot coil won"t increase power. But it will allow a wider plug gap and fire the plug in adverse conditions that would stop a not as hot coil, such as oil getting past worn rings. It can help burn deposits off the plug tips, maybe. That"s about it.



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dr.sportster

01-29-2005 07:00:18




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 Re: coils in reply to dangley, 01-28-2005 21:03:04  
The ballast resistor works on heat.When it runs cool it lets higher voltage through.At low speed with time for good coil saturation it heats up and allows a reduced 6 volts through.Since it runs a 6 volt coil with the ballast resistor the plugs still receive 25000 volts.As RPM increases allowing less saturation time the resistor cools allowing the full 12 volts[batt voltage]to the coil increasing the saturation for the increased speed.

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jdemaris

01-29-2005 19:38:23




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 Re: coils in reply to dr.sportster, 01-29-2005 07:00:18  
Which specific ignition resistor system are you referring to? Deere? Temperature
sensitive ignition resistors were only one of many approaches to controlling point arcing,
ignition drain, etc. The Delco-Remy system, traditionally, used a fixed-value ignition
resistor with a bypass. The Auto-Lite system was one of the first to utilize the
temperature sensitive ignition resistor as you've described. With some of the Deeres, I'm not sure what was used, but I believe it was a mixture of
both. 1010s and 2010s came new with a temperature sensitive resistor built into the
ignition switch - which had a tendency to burn out. When the updated changeover kits
came out, fixed value resistors with a bypass were used instead. As far as the compound word "ballast resistor" goes, although I've used it, and heard it
all my life - I'm not quite sure where it started and what it meant at the time it was first
used. Its denotation is that of a "resistor that compensates or stabilizes", but it seems to
have taken on the connotation of any ignition resistor, or laser resistor, power supply
resistor, etc. as long as it's used to compensate for various types of fluctuations.

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dr.sportster

01-30-2005 07:27:58




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 Re: coils in reply to jdemaris, 01-29-2005 19:38:23  
Just generalizations about American carmakers,not specific to J-D tractors.



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jdemaris

01-29-2005 05:59:08




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 Re: coils in reply to dangley, 01-28-2005 21:03:04  
A hot coil can enhance cold starting capability, but that's about it. And, even that's a trade off, since it can shorten ignition points life. When Deere made the transition from two cylinder to the newer series engines and tractors, e.g. 1010, 2010, then the 1020s and 2020s, etc. , a "hot" coil" WAS used, how hot I don't know since Deere offers little technical data. But, Deere used a 6 volt coil with a 12 volt system along with various types of resistors. This provides around 9 volts at cranking to a 6 volt coil instead of 9 volts to a 12 volt coil -which gives more voltage potential.

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dr.sportster

01-29-2005 05:06:55




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 Re: coils in reply to dangley, 01-28-2005 21:03:04  
If you run a magneto voltage output will increase with RPM so where high secondary voltage is most needed for reliable spark gap ionization the mag is able to deliver all that is required without problem.Coil and batt ignition is not so able to maintain voltage at higher RPM because the coil core is magnetized by battery [primary]current only during intervals when points are closed.When RPM increasespoints close for a shorter time.the magnetic feild of the coil now becomes weaker as the coil is less saturated with magnetism.So a better coil may help high speed running there will be no major difference at low speed.THe idea of the dual point distributor solves some of the coil saturation problem.That all being said without any increase over stock RPM range the original engineers have probably designed an ignition system worthy of firing your tractor within the normal operating speeds.Theoreticly an ignition system does not increase horsepower.

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Allan in NE

01-29-2005 04:19:02




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 Re: coils in reply to dangley, 01-28-2005 21:03:04  
Dangley,

Don't buy into that fairy tale. "Hot" ignition systems will not increase power or economy one nickel's worth.

Allan



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