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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

use of engine additives to misrepresent...

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Jonboy

12-15-2004 12:12:16




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I'm probably going to stir the pot alittle on this topic, but what do you think of sellers who add heavy oils and engine additives to make an old engine on it's last legs run like a new one for a day to pawn it off on an unsuspecting buyer. I understand from the sellers point of view that he won't get as much for selling the tractor for what it is, but I think it's very dishonest to dump a bunch of stuff in it and claim it runs good. To me, thats just not at all fair and wrong. Sure makes me think twice about buying a tractor at an auction after hearing my neighbors IH 886 before the auction and then during. He had dumped about 4 times the amount he was supposed to use of an engine oil additive and used 50wt oil to make the knocks and smoke go away so it made it run like a new one even though it seriously needed a rebuild, and I imagine this must get done alot.
Whats your thoughts on this?.

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Indydirtfarmer

12-16-2004 04:45:39




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 Re: use of engine additives to misrepresent... in reply to Jonboy, 12-15-2004 12:12:16  
It's only natural to suspect the person you bought a tractor from when you find something like you described. Truth is, I've see several tractors that were bought and sold without the last seller doing a thing. The cover-up took place 2 or 3 owners ago.

I try to buy, and only sell equipment that has been serviced BY ME before it leaves my yard. I have to pass on that cost, but I'm not selling someone a tractor that'll explode when they go to unload it....

Over the years, I've got burned a few times myself. When it happens, I just bite the bullit, and make whatever repairs are needed. Not the most profitable way sometimes, but at least I can sleep at night...

I own a tractor right now that's a perfect example. It had a hole in a cylinder sleeve. (wet sleeve pitting) It was traded in at a John Deere dealer I do business with. They have been very honest and outgoing to me for years. I know they wouldn't have deliberately decieved me. The tractor had enough radiator stop-leak in it to clog up the leak unless the tractor got fully warmed up. Then it would start dumping collant into the oil pan. From all appearances, the oil was drained, then replaced with USED oil. so as not to look like it had been changed (and no OTHER service done) It took about 2 or 3 hours of working it for the trouble to rear its ugly head.


2-1/2 gallons of anti-freeze in the oil pan....

It took almost $3500 to fix it. (Crankshaft damaged. some damage to the block when main/thrust bearing spun. sleeves, pistons, boil out block, ect.....

The dealer picked up the labor tab.

It happens....As best we can tell, the (respected) Cardiologist that traded in the tractor did the "cover-up". I can't prove it, and he sure isn't going to admit to it...

The high cost of doing business.....John

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Leland

12-15-2004 22:07:16




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 Re: use of engine additives to misrepresent... in reply to Jonboy, 12-15-2004 12:12:16  
I have saw all kinds of tricks, one guy had a freightliner with about 1.75 million miles was junk he filled engine with 140wt oil and put sawdust in rears to quiet them down and some fool got screwed at auction. But he was told never sell here again.



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Nebraska Cowman

12-15-2004 16:08:07




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 Re: use of engine additives to misrepresent... in reply to Jonboy, 12-15-2004 12:12:16  
Make you think you are getting something better than you are? Nope, I ain't goin' there cuz then you will find out anyway and be unhappy with me. Nope. I want only happy customers. After all I am in this to help guys, not make big bucks.
And another thing, If a man will lie, he will cheat, and if he will cheat he will steal.



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Teddy (punchie)

12-16-2004 15:13:15




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 Re: use of engine additives to misrepresent... in reply to Nebraska Cowman, 12-15-2004 16:08:07  
Yes !! I say that all the time , hate a lier and anyone that steals, Is a lier. I will not talk to them or have any dealings again with them.

Teddy



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RustyFarmall

12-15-2004 14:23:13




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 Re: use of engine additives to misrepresent... in reply to Jonboy, 12-15-2004 12:12:16  
Of course it's dishonest, why do you think used car salesmen got such a bad reputation?



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kyhayman

12-15-2004 13:28:01




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 Re: use of engine additives to misrepresent... in reply to Jonboy, 12-15-2004 12:12:16  
I've little use for people that do this, but I expect that EVERY time I buy at a sale it has been done to them and bid accordingly.



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bo

12-15-2004 12:37:39




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 Re: use of engine additives to misrepresent... in reply to Jonboy, 12-15-2004 12:12:16  
Of course it's dishonest and unethical. So? Happens everyday. Don't you think the guy doing this knows it's dishonest, of course he does. So?
This is why you need to do due diligence when you buy something used.



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Wondering

12-15-2004 15:41:03




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 Re: use of engine additives to misrepresent... in reply to bo, 12-15-2004 12:37:39  
Your comment is correct but I am wondering about your use of the "so?" comment. What exactly do you pop that in there for (twice)? I can't seem to get the meaning (if there is one).



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paul

12-15-2004 16:06:29




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 Re: use of engine additives to misrepresent... in reply to Wondering, 12-15-2004 15:41:03  
These types of things and behaviors are chronicled in the Bible, has happened before then, ever since then, and beyond.

It is part of human nature.

Certainly it is wrong, but any peer pressure, laws, rules, punishments ever made - have not stopped this behavior.

So? So why bother bringing it up? We all know it's a problem, we all have to deal with it, we all are aware of it if we ever buy & sell stuff.

So? Was there a question? Was there a point to the statememt? What is this thread all about?

People cheat. Sucks when they cheat me, is wrong when they cheat others. But it happens all the time.

So what? Nothing news here.

I don't wish to put words in the other person's mouth, but that is how I view it.

--->Paul

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Jonboy

12-15-2004 16:38:59




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 Re: use of engine additives to misrepresent... in reply to paul, 12-15-2004 16:06:29  
I posted it because it bothers me, and I don't like the dishonesty and I just wanted to bring it out into the spotlight. I posted it after I came home from an auction today and thats all.



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paul

12-15-2004 22:12:57




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 Re: use of engine additives to misrepresent... in reply to Jonboy, 12-15-2004 16:38:59  
Not that i meant anything by _my_ comments either. :)

I understand. It's troubling, but all we can do is watch our back-sides. Don't bid up machines you don't know anything about, assume an IHC tractor has a shot TA, assume a Ford SoS is shot, and so on.

Just how it is.

--->Paul



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Bo

12-15-2004 16:34:13




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 Re: use of engine additives to misrepresent... in reply to paul, 12-15-2004 16:06:29  
Thank you Paul..you explained "So" better than I could.



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TomH

12-15-2004 16:02:56




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 Re: use of engine additives to misrepresent... in reply to Wondering, 12-15-2004 15:41:03  
I shouldn't speak for someone else, but I had kind of the same reaction to the original post. Is it dishonest to do something that's dishonest? Sure. So what's the real question?

As the other's have said, if it's being sold at auction where you can't properly check it out, assume the worst.



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Wondering

12-15-2004 14:17:21




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 Re: use of engine additives to misrepresent... in reply to bo, 12-15-2004 12:37:39  
Your comment is correct but I am wondering about your use of the "so?" comment. What exactly do you pop that in there for (twice)? I can't seem to get the meaning (if there is one).



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bo

12-15-2004 12:37:16




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 Re: use of engine additives to misrepresent... in reply to Jonboy, 12-15-2004 12:12:16  
Of course it's dishonest and unethical. So? Happens everyday. Don't you think the guy doing this knows it's dishonest, of course he does. So?
This is why you need to do due diligence when you buy something used.



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lucass

12-15-2004 14:34:39




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 Re: use of engine additives to misrepresent... in reply to bo, 12-15-2004 12:37:16  

thats why you should allways pull the dipstick and see how sticky it it. lucass



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Jonboy

12-15-2004 14:43:56




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 Re: use of engine additives to misrepresent... in reply to lucass, 12-15-2004 14:34:39  
Thats an excellent tip. Is there anything else that gives it away?.
Thanks!



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JT

12-16-2004 09:28:45




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 Re: use of engine additives to misrepresent... in reply to Jonboy, 12-15-2004 14:43:56  
You pull the dipstick, and check the viscosity of the oil,if it is thick, then ask the auctioneer about it/person selling, ie; does it run good, has been serviced regularly, etc. check the dipstick and see if it appears to have burnt oil on it, even though the oil looks good. Take off the air filter and look to see if there is traces fo dirt in the intake that could not be cleaned. If the pull off the oil fill cap and smell it, if it has strong sulfer smell, it has been doctored with 90w, Check the radiator, if antifreeze lookd really clean on an old unkept tractor, there is another sign of something suspect, or does the antifreeze look real bad? What does the radiator look like? See if the auctioneer will start/ or the person selling it will start it. If it will not start or they will not let you start it, buyer beware!! I learned my lesson on a small scale a month ago, I had a guy tell me he had 2 Cub Cadet garden tractor for sale, said were great, I bought them, without running, the man seemed real honest, said "I would not cheat anyone" one was a 129, the other a 1450, 129 ran fine after cleaning carb, I knew it needed that, the 1450 needed same thing, but it also needs a major OH, hammering real bad. Thought I was a pretty good judge of character, NOT. So unless you get a writtne guarantee, you are on your own and I trust no one anymore. As for checking rear end and tranny, unless the tractor is huge, put it in gear, grab the wheels and rock the tractor, listening for anything that does not sound right, it might give you an insight of what might be in its future. Last but not least, if you want the tractor bad, are unsure about the tractor, write up a legal purchase contract, then if there is something wrong with he tractor and the seller knows it, then he can be held to repair it or give you your money back. At least you will have a little peice of mind.

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