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Propane question

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TnT

12-13-2004 14:25:35




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I live in North Texas, Wichita Falls, and I have an 850 Ford tractor that runs on propane. It came from the factory like that. This is my first winter with it. Today it's around 40 degrees and the wind is blowing and I hadn't started the tractor in a while. It had been raining and I'm expecting a deilvery at the ranch. I though I would fire up the tractor and have it ready in case the delivery truck got stuck. I cranked and cranked and finally resorted to putting the propane torch to heat up the intake manifold to get the engine to fire. It ran on about half choke on vapor only, It's very sensitve to throttle movement and will not run on liquid. Is this a propane cold weather thing? Must be why I don't recall seeing any propane tractors in Nebraska. Any suggestions? I have a gas burning B Model Farmall if all else fails. I just don't think the Farmall would pull a one ton truck pulling a 25 foot flad bed trailer out of the mud. I'm having a pole bar delivered. Finally going to get the equipment in out of the weather and provide a home for various barn kittys for the grandkids to pet.

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srs MN

12-15-2004 13:02:01




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 Re: Propane question in reply to TnT, 12-13-2004 14:25:35  
You must have some other problem with starting your propane tractor... Years ago I worked for a propane company in northern Minnesota, and we ran all the delivery trucks and pickups on straight HD5 propane, even at 30 below zero... they all started pretty good down to about 10 below and if it was suppose to get "cold", well, then we would just plug in the block heaters at night... Like others have already mentioned, make sure you've actually got propane, and not butane, in the tank - propane boils (vaporizes)at minus 40 degrees below zero, but butane quits being useful at PLUS 32 degrees ABOVE zero.

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CBBC

12-14-2004 20:21:45




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 Re: Barn Builders in reply to TnT, 12-13-2004 14:25:35  
Gee, I wish I could get some of those Okie's up here to put up a barn for those prices.
Grant



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txblu

12-15-2004 09:11:08




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 Re: Barn Builders in reply to CBBC, 12-14-2004 20:21:45  
I was at the Morton Buildings place getting an estimate as my first shop was theirs.

Bid was $47k for my building whereas the Okie's are doing it for $22.5 including 2250 sq ft of 6" concrete.

On the wall in the Morton office was a picture of one of you guys barns. Had a $200k New JD 8wheel drive coming out of it; full insulation, full interior liner, heated slab, wainscoat, soffits, gutters, concrete circle drive, cupola with rooster crowing on a weathervane and all the whistles and bells; musta been 100x200 square feet and cost at least $300k.

Too rich for my blood.

Mark

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txblu...barn builder?

12-14-2004 05:50:59




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 Re: Propane question in reply to TnT, 12-13-2004 14:25:35  
Who's building your barn?

I'm using BCI out of Muskogee, Ok.

Said backlog was 10 wks from time contract was signed. That puts me in mid Jan. Can't wait. Got the pad all leveled and packed. Just sit out ther e and stare at it. Been 5 years making up my mind as to what, where, who and when.

Had a 4020 96 hp Deere LP. In winter if it was really cranky, there was a liquid button on the side of the regulator/converter. Couple of seconds of pushing that, full choke and throttle and about 15 sec of cranking and was there.

Wish you luck.

Mark

Mark

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TNT

12-14-2004 13:26:43




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 Re: Propane question in reply to txblu...barn builder?, 12-14-2004 05:50:59  
I have contracted with mikes Barns out of Seminole Oklahoma. They are going to come to my place and build a 30 by 40 with 10 foot side wall barn out of plain corregated sheet metal for $6800. They have Sutherlands beat by about $1500
Phone number is 405-275-8033. Tell them Tom In WIchita Falls recomended them. I have been waiting since the end of October for it to get dry enough to get in a build. Materials are being delivered tomorrow!!

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txblu

12-15-2004 06:03:04




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 Re: Propane question in reply to TNT, 12-14-2004 13:26:43  
So that's 3 builders in Okla. Must be something to those "last of the plains settlers".

I have a 10 week lead time which will put me into about 15 Jan. Absolutely can't wait. So excited. 3 days to retirement and a new shop. Boy the ticker is really a thumpin.
Mark



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Tim...OK

12-14-2004 06:48:20




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 Re: Propane question in reply to txblu...barn builder?, 12-14-2004 05:50:59  
I used DT out of Gore,Ok to build mine,thats all they do,is build barns.. 30' x 50' complete in 3 days..
Tim



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txblu

12-14-2004 09:17:24




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 Re: Propane question in reply to Tim...OK, 12-14-2004 06:48:20  
I watched these guys build my neighbor's in 2 but it was plain Jane. Mine will probably take 3 also as it is 30x50 with a full length 15' shed vents, windows, 2 slider doors and a passage door.

Real professional, real good teamwork, knew what they were doing and can't beat the price. Quality was whatever you wanted to pay.


Seems those Okie's from "phinokie" know their barns.

Thought about cookin em up a big Texas BBQ with Mesquite, makin sure the wind was blowin the smoke their way, but I may get them full and lazy (if they eat too big a lunch) and take a siesta rather than finish the barn. Grin.

Thanks

Mark

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New Shed Price

12-14-2004 08:20:24




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 Re: Propane question in reply to Tim...OK, 12-14-2004 06:48:20  
A&C Builders, Oklahoma
1-800-889-1096
30X40X10
May 2004

Sliding door, 1 entry door, 4 Skylights in walls
Poles 5X5, 10' On Center
Rafters 2X6, 2X4 Braces, 2X6 Joist, 5'OC
29 Gauge Metal, Choice of Colors
Total Labor, Material, and deliver: $5,795.00

Nailed on tin (Rough estimate to screw on the roof $150)

Came out on a Saturday afternoon at about 4:00 and finished by Sunday afternoon. No down payment, 50% of price due upon delivery, 50% due when construction was complete. Most places wanted 20% - 40% just to get on a list and then they'll get to you when they have time. Shed looks great and I'm very happy with the quality.

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txblu

12-14-2004 09:20:43




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 Re: Propane question in reply to New Shed Price, 12-14-2004 08:20:24  
Mine's a tad more than that, but beats Morton 2.5:1. Course Morton is a Cadillac and I didn't need all their whistles and bells..... like gutters. Only good to catch leaves and clean out around my place.

Later,

Mark



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Billy NY

12-13-2004 19:53:18




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 Re: Propane question in reply to TnT, 12-13-2004 14:25:35  
Ah ha..... I'm not the only one with this problem, I have a '55 Ford 850 LPG, and below 30, usually in the 20's is when it does not like to run for long, it will start sometimes, but it does not like the cold temperature.

From what I understand about propane is that it liquifies at cold temperatures, so it seems I'm not getting vaporization, or vapor at all, but these temperatures are not cold enough to cause liquification, I'll post a link to an interesting site on propane. Boiling point of propane is some really cold temperature, the link below has some interesting information on propane.

This 850 has an Impco regulator/vaporizer on it, with coolant lines runnning coolant through it, it frosts up in the lower temperatures, and I'm thinking that before the thermostat opens and lets hot water through, the fan is pulling cold air in and blowing it directly on the reg./vap. further cooling it before things get heated up enough in the vaporizer. I've got to educate myself on this kind of a fuel system, as this may just be an incorrect assumption. Also I've got to look into the carb on mine, ( did you say choke ? ) LOL, never used a choke on an LPG engine, even in the cold, if I remember correctly.

I was stumped by this, as the forklifts in the lumber yard always were left in the cold warehouses at 0 deg. F or less, and they usually started and ran with little trouble.

I solved the problem, since last year, the old 850 goes into the heated garage, ready to go now, just put inside tonight. I am curious to see what can be done to make cold starting easier I've kept my 30 lb. tank inside, makes a little difference, but it's got to be something to do with the Impco reg./vap.

I do like the LPG, oil stays really clean, the tank looks a little unsightly but overall it's not bad, no one wanted this tractor because it was LPG, it was for sale for quite some time before I bought it.

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Jon H

12-13-2004 23:24:53




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 Re: Propane question in reply to Billy NY, 12-13-2004 19:53:18  
Billy,I have experience with installing and servicing IMPCO propane fuel systems. The coolant line to the vaporizer is plumbed in before the thermostat,so coolant circulates through it as soon as the engine runs. On a cold start,you should run the engine slow without load untill the coolant warms enough to keep the vaporizer from freezing up.Also keep the coolant level up in the radiator,with low coolant level,some engines will not circulate coolant in the vaporizer if it is mounted high up on the engine. Most IMPCO vaporizers have a primer button on the case cover.Pushing this button will open the secondary stage of the Vaporizer/regulator and feed a bit more propane vapor to the carb for easier starting. If you have an IMPCO "air valve" carb,it neither has nor needs a choke.

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BillY NY

12-14-2004 06:43:00




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 Re: Propane question in reply to Jon H, 12-13-2004 23:24:53  
I'll take a closer look, at the system, I do have a coolant leak on this engine, that I have not been able to trace yet, so the level might have been lower, I keep it topped off, funny thing is looks like its down only a little and then takes a gallon. Not sure what type of carburetor it has, I'll look for that primer button, and note the model of Impco regulator/vaporizor for reference. I'm fortunate that there is enough room in the garage, which kind of defers the problem for now, but would be nice to figure it out, have tried to keep the ignition system in good shape, points adjusted contacts clean etc., I'm sure good spark helps, but what a difference keeping it in 60 deg garage makes.

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big jt

12-13-2004 17:17:55




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 Re: Propane question in reply to TnT, 12-13-2004 14:25:35  
Something isn't right there. I have started my Cockshutt 40 when temp was in the teen's.

Would guess you either have a valve/diaphragm giving fits, some "grease" in a passage, or you have pure butane in the tank.

The "grease" I am refering to is a precipitate of LP. Usually occurs when tractor is filled out of the dead bottom of nurse tank. The stuff holds the odorant real well and stinks to high heaven.

Don't have my Ford LP yet so not familiar with carburation they used. If it is Ensign they won't work at part choke.

HTH

jt

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Jon H

12-13-2004 17:00:37




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 Re: Propane question in reply to TnT, 12-13-2004 14:25:35  
I run propane burning tractors in North Dakota and starting is no problem down to below 0. Usually at -20 or colder I need to put a sniff of starting fluid in the air intake to light them off. If you have problems starting a propane engine at 40F,it may have a tuneup problem or possibly you have the wrong propane fuel. There is a motor fuel grade of propane that you should be using,this is all we can get in ND. This is the correct blend of propane and butane for easy cold weather vaporization and starting. If by chance the propane you are being sold is a southern blend that is very heavy on butane,then cold weather starting could be a problem as butane will hardly vaporize at 40F Check your propane supplier to see if he is selling you a motor fuel blend

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Jon H

12-13-2004 17:18:09




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 Re: Propane question in reply to Jon H, 12-13-2004 17:00:37  
What I find on the net is that the motor fuel propane spec is HD5. A commercial grade of propane may not meet the HD5 spec which is 95% or higher propane content.



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Nebraska Cowman

12-13-2004 15:50:01




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 Re: Propane question in reply to TnT, 12-13-2004 14:25:35  
My landlord runs a old 630 John Deere on Propane on the feed wagon year round here in nebraska, Sometimes if is real cold we have to lead it with another tractor but it always starts. The liquid valve has not been shut in years. In fact i believe both valves are open. It seems to start best with no trottle and choke sparingly.



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TnT

12-13-2004 17:01:31




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 Re: Propane question in reply to Nebraska Cowman, 12-13-2004 15:50:01  
My ex-inlaws lived over around Spalding Nebraska. he ran gas buring Alice Chalmers.



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Walter Squires

12-13-2004 14:45:34




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 Re: Propane question in reply to TnT, 12-13-2004 14:25:35  
TnT, when you get your pole bar done give us a hollar and we'll all come over for a drink.
Just could'nt resist that one..... . Good luck on your new pole BARN. WALTER



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