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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Doing my own hay

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Doug, Ontario

11-29-2004 14:44:35




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I am planning to hay one of my fields myself this spring and am looking for advice on square balers. I have about 50 acres that has been hayed by a local cattle farmer and I now have a few horses so have sectioned off about 10 acres back for pasture and my own hay needs.
I now have an 8n that is in great shape but I am not sure how practical using it as a working tractor is.
I imagine that I will need some type of sickel mower, a rake, and a baler. I have thought of hiring someone to do the work for me, but I really would like to do it myself. Any ideas on cost? compatible equipment with the 8n? Also what is a good rule of thumb for standard size horse bales/acre?

Thanks for your help.

Regards/Doug

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Doug, Ontario

11-30-2004 17:15:45




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 Re: Doing my own hay in reply to Doug, Ontario, 11-29-2004 14:44:35  
Thanks for all your replies. It really sounds like I need to get a bigger tractor. I have been looking at the MF 165 or maybe a for 2000/3000. I also see alot of older Internationals.

Sometimes I am tempted to just go out and buy a Kubota.

I realize getting set up is going to cost some $$ but the older stuff seems to have stopped depreciating. So if I find that doing my own hay isn't what I picture I can try to sell it.

Buy the way, anyone want to buy a great little 8n with a freeman loader on it. New fluids. and a few new hoses. I paid $3,500 Canadian and I would be looking to break even.

Regards/Doug

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Bob Semrau

11-30-2004 09:34:16




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 Re: Doing my own hay in reply to Doug, Ontario, 11-29-2004 14:44:35  
As others here have said, your 8N should do fine for the rake and sickle-bar mower. If you are careful, you could probably handle a smaller NH PTO baler as well. Both the 66 and 268 have an overrunning clutch built into the baler, so that you could start the baler up in neutral, then clutch and shift into first and start off while the baler flywheel is still spinning. I've seen plenty of balers in Amish country with a 16 HP Briggs Vanguard Twin as the engine (I haven't heard very good things about the Wisconsin that was the original engine), but the engine adds alot of cost to the baler.

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joe in Pa.

11-29-2004 18:51:25




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 Re: Doing my own hay in reply to Doug, Ontario, 11-29-2004 14:44:35  
If you can afford it and enjoy working your own land, go for it. I used to have someone do my hay and unless conditions are perfect, you end up on the short end of the stick. as in this year with the wet conditions. I put up some really nice hay. the guy that used to put up my hay never got his done, so he would have never got to mine. economicaly it is probably not a good idea, but I like to do it. you might to

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T213R

11-29-2004 18:24:07




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 Re: Doing my own hay in reply to Doug, Ontario, 11-29-2004 14:44:35  
If you are really wanting to do it yourself, you will need equipment (Yes I know---DUH). If I were you I'd find another tractor first. I personally like John deere, but they are expensive. If this is to be a minimum cost start up, look for a tractor like a Farmall 300. You need 40 hp or so, and should have live pto. The tractor of that size need not be diesel. Other makes, look at the Oliver Super77, a MF 65, AC D17. Be sure that you get the three point hitch and remote hydraulics for at least one remote cylinder.

A simple sicklebar mower will be the cheapest method of cutting your hay. A MowerConditioner would be better, because it "conditions" the hay and can windrow it as well. Conditioning cuts down drying time, and windrowing saves a raking operation (and will extend drying time by perhaps a day), but a good, functioning moco, like a NH 479 or a JD 1209 will cost a lot more than a simple mowing machine.

Look for a ground driven pull type rake. The rakes with a "dolly wheel" are lots easier to hook up to, but can't turn as sharp. Five bars does a better job than four bars, and will likely be newer and more expensive, A JD 640 or a NH 56 are good, older choices.

If it is horsehay, small squares are the best choice for feed. They are a lot easier to feed---you just put out what you want them to have, and don't have to worry about self feeding too much, or wastage, like with large round bales. You won't need a bale mover with small square bales OR a tractor big enough to pick up 1500-1800, or more pounds of big bale.

You will need a hay wagon (or two). These can cost as little as $2-300 (depending on how good) all the way up to $750 or more.

Balers should be either a John Deere or a New Holland. There are other brands, but if you are a novice, I think you will get far better dealer support and assistance with these two brands than you will with say an IHC or MF or Ford or AC or whatever baler. There will be plenty of people who swear by such makes, but---there will be fewer parts, fewer dealer technitians who can fix and adjust one, and the used examples you are likely to find will often be offered for sale for very good reasons---they probably arne't in the best working condition!

Wanting to do your own hay means that YOU will not have to try to cajole someone else into baling your hay immediately, with the threat of inclemment weather looming on the horizon. You cannot always rely on someone else when you need timely services. It's just that doing it yourself might not be terribly inexpensive considering the startup costs of even well used equipment! It is also a lot of work! Satisfying work, but work it is!

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Mike (WA)

11-30-2004 08:11:05




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 Re: Doing my own hay in reply to T213R, 11-29-2004 18:24:07  
That was one of the most comprehensive replies I've seen for some time. And what's more, I agree with most of it, which makes it even better! Only minor points I would add are: You can do it with an 8N, if you get a sickle bar mower and a baler with engine. I agree that JD or NH are the way to go- both for quality and parts/repair support. I haven't seen a hay wagon in my country in years- I think most of the folks in the midwest use a thrower, or pull a wagon behind the baler. If you are dropping the bales on the ground, a flatbed trailer (like a car trailer) pulled with a pickup is better, IMHO. Lower and easier to buck onto, and if you use the pickup, you can probably get mama to help, which adds to the "quality family time" angle of the whole thing. Finally, you need to be sure you have the time to do this, and can be timely. When it's ready, and the weather's right, you've gotta go ahead on it. I depended on vacations for years, and as often as not, sat through a week or two of rain, and ended up "burning the midnight oil" getting the hay put up on weekends and nights after the vacation was over. Bummer. Now I'm self employed, and no workee, no monee- so I quit haying 3 years ago. Could no longer justify the time. Now I buy for $1.50 per bale, and the kids and I can get the 600 bales in in two evenings, and we're done. I think part of it was, as I get older, haying's just not as much fun anymore.

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mike brown

11-29-2004 15:53:19




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 Re: Doing my own hay in reply to Doug, Ontario, 11-29-2004 14:44:35  
I used to have a 9N and about all it could handle was raking. It might handle a sickle bar mower. It isn't near enough tractor to handle a pto baler even if you drop the bales on the ground. Unless you have level ground don't try to handle loaded wagons with it either. That tail will wag that little dog.



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old

11-29-2004 14:57:59




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 Re: Doing my own hay in reply to Doug, Ontario, 11-29-2004 14:44:35  
You will need a sickle mower or hay bine, also a rake. mower will cost $200-5000 depending on what you get. A rake can be had for $200-3000 again depending on what and age. Balers you will have trouble with because there are very few and 8n will handle, something like a JD 14T with engine will work but they are getting few and far between. Also lack of live PTO also makes it harder to do what you want.

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Edchainsaw

11-30-2004 11:46:24




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 Re: Doing my own hay in reply to old, 11-29-2004 14:57:59  
I bale(or baled) hay for several years and know that fiscally its a money pit.

But if you want to do it and dont care about what you spend its good to do it when its right and not "Pester" the guy as to when He can get to your patch.

The 8n ford should take care of the baler--- if it has the over riding clutch NOT on the baler but at the end of the PTO on the tractor.... baling without LIVE PTO IS HAZZARDUS, and just a plain PAIN. because when you hit a large pile of hay in a windrow and go to step on the clutch to slow yourself down YOU WILL PLUG, no ifs ands or maybe's. I myself use a JD baler Dad baught when I was a kid for small bales (an NH 852 for bigs)

again I would say its going to cost you dear to get started.

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old

11-30-2004 12:08:50




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 Re: Doing my own hay in reply to Edchainsaw, 11-30-2004 11:46:24  
IT all an 8N could do to run/pull a baler. My 801 ford just had enough power to pull a JD-14T and that was with a new engine in it. An 8N would get wore out fast trying to run a baler. Unless it was one with its own engine to power the baler. Oh by the way I have baled my own hay for 25 years I started out with a 14T but now use an 850NH and that really takes a good size tractor to run it. But boy are them bales big about 2500lbs each

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