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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Does anyone know how to trun up a injector pump.

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krk

11-06-2004 11:02:42




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I have a JD 2555 with a turbo and I wanted to know how to turn the pump up to get more power. Someone tould me to take the little cover off the pump and turn the motor over until I saw a screw..... them turn it in 1/4 turn.




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krk

11-07-2004 11:00:00




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 Re: Does anyone know how to trun up a injector pum in reply to krk, 11-06-2004 11:02:42  
I talked to the JD dealer in my area and they told me that they don't turn up pumps anymore because they would get fined $2000 if they were caught by the state. Something about making more smog in the air.....not sure ,but they claimed it wouldn't hurt the tractor a bit if I got it turned up.....They claim they had 4440 in the past that they turned up to 160 HP and the tractors last for years for the owners. They said they can't risk getting fined.... They sais word of mouth travels fast...if they turn one up the whole area might fined out.

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ben uk

11-07-2004 09:44:42




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 Re: Does anyone know how to trun up a injector pum in reply to krk, 11-06-2004 11:02:42  
another idea for you to consider is asking a tractor puller to do it, assuming he does his own tractor. The good ones will know more about pumps, fuel, and what you can do to an engine than just about any one. Just remind him its not going pulling and doesnt need that much!

The other possibility of course is a bigger tractor. I dont know JD tractors but if that is the bottom of the range then you can turn it up and the drivetrain ought to cope. If it is the top one in the series likely it may not, as that is the most that drivetrain is designed to cope with.

some people will buy tractors that are low down in a range then open them up to the horsepower of the top tractor in that range.

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jdemaris

11-06-2004 20:29:54




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 Re: Does anyone know how to trun up a injector pum in reply to krk, 11-06-2004 11:02:42  
Turning the pump up or down is a simple job as long as you know what your are doing. I'm a little rusty since I haven't worked for a Deere dealer since 1990 (started in the 60s). We were selling the 55 series new around that time, and some of the models were VERY responsive to turing up the fuel - especially the 2755 as I recall. We put every tractor we sold, new or used on the dyno, and usually turned up the fuel until we saw excessive smoke under load or overheating problems. I know of many tractors that absolutely did not loose any of their longevity or reliability from this - but we were conservative about it. AS far as sending a pump to a pump shop every time you want it changed or checked over - I think it's nuts unless you have a bottomless wallet. If you don't have the knowledge, and you're stuck with a bad pump, that's a different story. From what I've seen on the repair bills for pumps coming back from pump shops, it appears to me that they are charging well over $100 per hour. There is nothing magic inside a CAV or RoosaMaster pump. You can also calibrate it, and set the timing advance on the running tractor - it does not require a pump test stand. That being said, I don't remember if the 2755 has a Standyne/RoosaMaster distributor pump, or a CAV distributor pump. The Roosamaster gets turned up by one scew - accessed from outside the pump. You should do it 1/8 of a turn a time - clockwise to increase. The pump will have limiting shims installed (if they haven't been removed) which will prevent you from turing it very far. If you have a CAV, you remove the trap door on the side of the pump, loosen a bolt that hold two pieces of metal togehter - you loosen it and move one piece against the other a bit. Sorry, but I don't know how to explain it better with just words. I suspect you won't get much more than an extra 5 horse from the 2555 before you get to a point where fuel is being wasted.

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Rod F.

11-06-2004 19:18:16




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 Re: Does anyone know how to trun up a injector pum in reply to krk, 11-06-2004 11:02:42  
Either take the pump off and have it calibrated at an injection pump shop, or put the tractor on a PTO dyno. I'm not aware of any way to rough a rotary pump like you have. Inline pumps can be field set with the right information. Don't take this the wrong way, but if you are asking how to do this, you should leave it alone. There are many things you ought to understand about pumps if you are going to play with them. As far as turning an engine up, in principle, I see nothing wrong with it, provided you are careful with it. Ag engines are usually set to make full power continously. The same engine could have an intermittent rating 20 -30 % higher. Generally, engine life is going to be shortened, especially if it is run at maximum power for extended periods. Using that power as a torque reserve or short bursts of intermittent power likely won't do too much if any harm. Again, if you decide to crank her, at least get it done with benefit of a dyno or calibrate the pump on a test stand. Take care.

Rod

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Bryan Mackey

11-06-2004 17:23:13




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 Re: Does anyone know how to trun up a injector pum in reply to krk, 11-06-2004 11:02:42  
I have a ford 7840 92' model, when i start the tractor it smokes and backfires if you try to give it throttle, but you can kill it and try to start it again repeating this process until it will finally smooth off and quit acting up, then it will run fine and smooth until you kill it, then you have to start this process over the next time you crank it? any suggestions?



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Leland

11-06-2004 16:16:29




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 Re: Does anyone know how to trun up a injector pum in reply to krk, 11-06-2004 11:02:42  
Take pump off and go a fuel injection shop and have pump put on test stand that way they can set fuel delivery and and rpms to a safe operating level.



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Ryan

11-06-2004 15:35:34




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 Re: Does anyone know how to trun up a injector pum in reply to krk, 11-06-2004 11:02:42  
I got the same kind of run around when I asked how to turn one back down. We have had a 4010 for years that dirties the oil and smokes too much. Former owners did a bit of pulling with it we think, it will blow fire out of the exhaust a few inches at night, even with an extention. Sorry I can't help.

Ryan



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Bob

11-06-2004 15:53:47




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 Re: Does anyone know how to trun up a injector pum in reply to Ryan, 11-06-2004 15:35:34  
I wouldn't call advice that may help save $$$thousands "the run around".

First off, you need to know EXACTLY what you're doing, and work in a clean and carefull manner.

With fuel rate settings, a little "fiddling" can go a long way! Even 1/8 of a turn can have a significant effect on output. Unless you have access to an injection pump test stand, or a PTO dyno (and the spec's to go with it), injection pump adjustments are "a shot in the dark", with possible bad consequences for the engine and/or the pump. Depending on the situation, torque rise and timing advance adjustments may be needed, too!

If adjustments are really needed, paying a diesel shop to do it properly can be money well spent!

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Ryan

11-07-2004 04:39:00




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 Re: Does anyone know how to trun up a injector pum in reply to Bob, 11-06-2004 15:53:47  
Your right, I probably shouldn't have used such strong words. Just a bit frustrated at the similiarity in responses when I wanted to turn mine down. Like I said in the lower post, the tractor doesn't get worked hard, 30 hours a year on an auger and I do have a dyno I could put it on. I feel like more damage is being done running it rich when we are not working it terribly hard (10 inch 72 foot auger, soybeans).

Ryan

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Rod F.

11-07-2004 15:40:47




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 Re: Does anyone know how to trun up a injector pum in reply to Ryan, 11-07-2004 04:39:00  
If you are not working it hard, then it is not getting the extra fuel anyway. A diesel will only get fueled up as it is loaded down. It's a little different idea than setting a rich mixture on a carb, where it is constantly too rich. So, if you are worried about working it too hard, just back off a gear, or load it a little lighter. Watch the smoke, and when it gets too dark for your liking, back off. Take care.

Rod

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Redman

11-06-2004 19:38:57




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 Re: Does anyone know how to trun up a injector pum in reply to Bob, 11-06-2004 15:53:47  
my guess is if your engine goes out from a fuel adjustment,the engine was about done in before you fiddled with it.
i would love to say how to do it on the said tractor,but i don't knoe what pump is on it.
i have seen a ton of tractors turned up over the years,and i have yet to see anything major go wrong with any of them unless you consider the wedding ring on the model 100 pumps on the IHs that likes to go out that will set you back $15 and about 5 minutes to fix.

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Ryan

11-07-2004 04:33:41




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 Re: Does anyone know how to trun up a injector pum in reply to Redman, 11-06-2004 19:38:57  
The tractor has a roosamaster pump, I do have a dyno, the tractor does not get worked hard, it runs an auger about 30 hours a year.

Ryan



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Redman

11-07-2004 15:26:45




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 Re: Does anyone know how to trun up a injector pum in reply to Ryan, 11-07-2004 04:33:41  
the rossa master is a good pump,but i will not tell you how to do it on that pump.
i have not had much experience with turning them up,the inlines and model 100s are more my bag of tee.
couldn't you talk to one of the mechanics at the local dealer?i'll bet one of them would come out and do it for a case of beer after hours!



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Tim(nj)

11-06-2004 14:39:42




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 Re: Does anyone know how to turn up an injector pu in reply to krk, 11-06-2004 11:02:42  
Well, if you"ve got a turbo on your 2555, you"re running at 2755 specs (76 instead of 66 HP). Deere went to a 359 6-cylinder to get 86 HP on the 2955 for a reason. The later 6300 used a 76 HP 239 turbo, and the 6400 used a 4-cylinder 276 turbo to get 85 HP.
Perhaps the engineers thought the 4-cylinder 239 was maxed out at 76 HP?
Not sure I"d chance turning it up.



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buickanddeere

11-07-2004 14:20:59




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 Re: Does anyone know how to turn up an injector pu in reply to Tim(nj), 11-06-2004 14:39:42  
I was wonder than too how the natural aspirated 239 used in the 56HP 2355 and 66HP 2555 grew a turbo? Unless that engine is "turbo built" with extra cooling oil jets etc. The extra heat will cause lots of $$$ to be spent.



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ben uk

11-06-2004 12:28:55




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 Re: Does anyone know how to trun up a injector pum in reply to krk, 11-06-2004 11:02:42  
I dont know how to do it, but if you do, be careful. When you fire her up for the first time i would have the air filter disconnected and something ready to block the air from getting into the engine. If you get it wrong and she takes off too fast, it can start running on its own oil, so even if you stop the fuel it will keep going until BANG.

If that happens, although its unlikely, just block the air and shell stop. Dont do it until your sure you know exactly what your doing.

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Bob

11-06-2004 11:56:58




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 Re: Does anyone know how to trun up a injector pum in reply to krk, 11-06-2004 11:02:42  
Advice that is gonna cost you between $1200.00 and $10,000.00, depending on if the damage you cause is limited to the injection pump, or if it takes the engine with it!



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buickanddeere

11-06-2004 14:02:15




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 Re: Does anyone know how to trun up a injector pum in reply to Bob, 11-06-2004 11:56:58  
I agree. Unless you have a dyno, the knowhow and the manuals why do you want to tinker with something that can get so expensive? Even then, all it should be taken to is max factory specs. Better to hook onto a smaller load or purchase a larger tractor. Th drive train and possibly cooling system will be stressed beyond design limits.



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Redman

11-06-2004 19:43:53




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 Re: Does anyone know how to trun up a injector pum in reply to buickanddeere, 11-06-2004 14:02:15  
i really don't get some of the numbers you guys put on here.
also if the cooling system is matched that close to the engine hp that it can't handle another 10-20hp i think it better go to a radiator shop and get cleaned.
turn it up and use it as the same hp tractor that it was from the factory and they will be fine.
if you use your head on them the extra hp will not hurt them.



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buickanddeere

11-06-2004 21:02:16




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 Re: Does anyone know how to trun up a injector pum in reply to Redman, 11-06-2004 19:43:53  
This guy could be in a warm weather area and has the cooling system about maxed already. 10 to 20HP is another 15 to 30% more power, that's alot of gain. If it's even the HP is in there, there will now be all kinds of unburned fuel going up the stack.( black smoke) It's a safer to bet the tractor will be loaded to the max and lugging down all the time. No matter where the pump is set. Which of the numbers need some looking at? We are trying to keep this guy out of trouble, down time and repair bill$. Not to crap all over his question.

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Redman

11-07-2004 15:32:05




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 Re: Does anyone know how to trun up a injector pum in reply to buickanddeere, 11-06-2004 21:02:16  
i understand why you don't want to tell him,but the $10,000 is a bit much for me.
i even looked in a parts book today from one of our suppliers and could not touch half of that in parts on any engine i looked up.
average overhaul is around $4,000 unless we are dealing with a 4wd they tend to run a little more.
a diesel does not work like a gas engine,just because the pump is set to a certain setting does not mean the engine is going to get it.
a diesel will only use what it needs-to an extent.

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