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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

The Bushes...OFF TOPIC!

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Fred OH

10-15-2004 08:31:26




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Not wanting to start a political argument here, just discussion. Did any of you watch the PBS program last night on the political candidates (both of them) and they told about the Bushes working for the Bin Ladins (sp). This seems to make me think that GW doesn"t want to find Osama...they appear to be business friends...something about 1.6 billion dollars. Anybody know about this? If this is true it could sway a lot of votes Who put on this program? They showed the Bushes with some people we call "the enemy" today. Well, anyhow, someone give a little feed back on this if you"re in the know. Please, no guessing...just in the know posts. Fred OH

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Historian

10-15-2004 21:20:00




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 Re: The Bushes...OFF TOPIC! in reply to Fred OH, 10-15-2004 08:31:26  
Well it bothers me that our presidents grandfather lost his shipping line during WW2 because he was guilty of Ading and Abedding an enemy of the United States.

yes folks Prescot Bush's shippingline used the line "it was only business" to make a profit.



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Mike (WA)

10-15-2004 10:43:14




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 Re: The Bushes...OFF TOPIC! in reply to Fred OH, 10-15-2004 08:31:26  
I saw a program on the same topic, but probably not the PBS program, because it apparently had a different slant. The Bin Laden family is huge, and apparently most are respected world business people. Osama is considered the "black sheep", and an embarassment to the rest. The show focused on a woman with the family name who has been living in the US for 20 some years, and the problems she has had because of her name.

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RusselAZ

10-15-2004 10:15:15




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 Re: The Bushes...OFF TOPIC! in reply to Fred OH, 10-15-2004 08:31:26  
Now you are thinking like PBS wanted you too which was the point of the whole program.

Ever do any business with a family named smith?

Kerry is a total negative for this country. Can anyone point to ANY news documentaries about him that are positive? Other than, "I have a plan!!!"



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tlak

10-15-2004 12:14:45




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 Re: The Bushes...OFF TOPIC! in reply to RusselAZ, 10-15-2004 10:15:15  
Same point about Bush. If he has all these plans to fix the US why didnt he do it these last four years?



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JRM

10-15-2004 14:30:41




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 Re: The Bushes...OFF TOPIC! in reply to rex, 10-15-2004 13:48:56  
Your number 3 point is a bit skewed. Gas prices are high because crude oil is at an all time high. Higher raw materials = higher finished products. Have you forgotten that another president dipped into the strategic oil reserves to artificially keep gas prices low before a previous election? Where does our oil come from? Most of it is imported.

Point number 4. I talked to my insurance agent yesterday. I should have asked him to ask President Bush to lower my rate. Wait, Pres. Bush doesn"t set insurance rates. They are based on loss payouts. Why are losses so high? Lets see, natural disiasters (Lots of hurricane and tornado damage lately) and insurance companies paying out absurd sums due to frivelouls lawsuits come to mind.

I think you are pinning something on the president that he has little or no control over.

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big fred

10-15-2004 14:48:43




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 Re: The Bushes...OFF TOPIC! in reply to JRM, 10-15-2004 14:30:41  
Hurricanes shut down lots of Gulf production and there are strikes in Nigeria. Both have caused oil prices to rise. Cheney woulda been a rich man now if he'd stayed in the oil business. Don't see how it helped him to go to a $202,900 (plus $10,000 taxable expense allowance) job if he was just in it for the money.



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big fred

10-15-2004 13:17:13




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 Re: The Bushes...OFF TOPIC! in reply to tlak, 10-15-2004 12:14:45  
He did, most of what I've heard listed as "his plans" are things that have been passed into law or are hung up in the Senate waiting for the two Johns to show up and vote on them.



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ebbsspeed

10-15-2004 09:52:07




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 Re: The Bushes...OFF TOPIC! in reply to Fred OH, 10-15-2004 08:31:26  
Isn't some guy named Osama running for office in Illinois?



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Matt from CT

10-15-2004 09:48:48




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 Re: The Bushes...OFF TOPIC! in reply to Fred OH, 10-15-2004 08:31:26  
>They showed the Bushes with some people we >call "the enemy" today.

Like?

Osama has...fifty brothers and sisters. Wonder how many aunts/uncles/cousins/nieces/nephes that adds up to. Big family, tieing the *family* to the Bush's isn't necessarily tough when the two families work in similiar/same businesses.

But knowing someone in the family means what? I'm friends with a retired farmer, he chairs a few Boards in the Town, he's working with Town to sell it at below-open-market the 100+ acre former egg farm that's strategically located in the center of our town to be the linch-pin of a business park...And his son is on death row for being a serial murderer. All for girls in the 14-18 year old range.

Do we condem a father for the sins of his son? Or sisters for the actions of their brothers?

Or do we look at people as individuals; do we see what people & groups *do* -- not what some wink-wink nod-nod gossip says about them?

It isn't hard to figure out that the same attitudes that allowed intelligence to be so crucially flawed in fears, uncertainity, and doubts doesn't fall far from the tree of current American politics. How can we throw stones in our own glass houses, how can we manipulate primaries by having candidates that appeal to the hard right or left of their respective parties but can still try and make themselves seem centrist in the general election? How can we instill FUD in the voters, tailoring it to micro-specific interest groups based on the latest polls?

Accusations like the Bush/Bin Laden connection just don't hold up to common sense (when did America become a nation of conspiracy theories anyway?). Then again, a lot of the right's rhetoric doesn't either.

Where are the Statesmen?

Morons '04. McCain '08.

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Allan in NE

10-15-2004 09:28:33




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 Re: The Bushes...OFF TOPIC! in reply to Fred OH, 10-15-2004 08:31:26  
Fred,

You beat me to the punch on this one. I was going to bring up the same darned topic.

I have always enjoyed watching Frontline and usually it is very enlightening.

But, the episode that you are referring to left me, shall we say, taken aback! That thing was skewed so far left it was totally implausible.

That program lost a lot of trustworthiness to my mind. They were pushing Kerry like a bulldozer, which was more than evident.

Allan

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jdriver

10-15-2004 11:44:07




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 Re: The Bushes...OFF TOPIC! in reply to Tom in TN, 10-15-2004 10:23:13  
I am glad you where treated with respect when you gotout.When I went off base in uniform(which I was very proud to be in)peaple Spit on me and cursed at me told their kids I was the bad guy.I never want our military to endure that again and I dont want a leader that responsible for acting that way leading us Steve



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Stan(PA)

10-15-2004 10:37:07




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 Re: The Bushes...OFF TOPIC! in reply to Tom in TN, 10-15-2004 10:23:13  
Tom, okay, maybe not most, but alot. I was just making the point that the "mudslinging" toward either candidate doesn"t really mean much today. It seems there is a lot of "digging up dirt" about the candidates, when it should be about current issues and ideas.



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hanbert

10-15-2004 09:23:33




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 Re: The Bushes...OFF TOPIC! in reply to Fred OH, 10-15-2004 08:31:26  
Missed the Frontline program, I'm sorry to say, try to pick it up in rerun. I just can't get onboard with the big conspiricy theory. I have no doubt that the Bush Family has had dealings with members of the Bin Laden Family. After all the Bin Laden Family is a huge multinational construction and oil services company, and the Bush Family made a fortune in the oil business. It is inevitable that their paths and fortunes would cross. I think that G.W. would like nothing better than to flush out Ossama before the election to give some substance to this "war" on terror. I won't be voting for Bush anyway, for a variety of issues on which he has demonstrated either disregard, indifference, or incompetence

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RusselAZ

10-15-2004 10:07:24




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 Re: The Bushes...OFF TOPIC! in reply to hanbert, 10-15-2004 09:23:33  
And those issues are?????



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Hanbert

10-15-2004 18:41:39




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 Re: The Bushes...OFF TOPIC! in reply to RusselAZ, 10-15-2004 10:07:24  
The issues which encourage me to seek a change would be: 1.) Big talk on fiscal responsibility, followed by record deficits. ( I realize all feds play vodoo with the budget, i.e. counting if- come money projected into the future etc. but this is ridiculous). 2.) An enviornmental record which sets back clean water and air standards 40 years. I would like my 18 month old to have better air quality then we grew up with in the 60's. 3.)I can except a man who makes a few miscalculations, but not an a man who can't admit a mistake. Whether or not we should be in Iraq or not is a whole different issue, but let's at least admit we made some miscalculations,own up to it, fix it, and move on. 4.) I don't understand how we get warned of further and more devastating attacks by Al Quida by the Bushies, "if we make the wrong choice in November", These are the guys in charge who let us get clobbered the first time! You know the guys who don't read intelligence reports, FBI warnings, etc. Cuts into that vacation time at Crawford. 5.) The so-called Patriot Act, which is a lot like the Healthy Forest Act,a euphamism for slash and burn clear cutting by big timber companies, Patriot,is Bush-speak for a gestapo like legislation which so broadens the scope of what law enforcement can do legally, that you are personally at risk if the Federal Govt. decides they don't like your politics. you say that it only applies to non citizens, thats today, tomorrow they come for you! Any true patriot would roll over in their grave. 6.) No Child Left Behind and Pell Grants, Bush is for them, he just doesn't fund them, so they have minimal effect, same with rebuilding Iraq, appropriate huge sums of money, but don't ever actually do the work. I do notice that Halliburton gets paid, like 48.00 for a case of Coke, and Oil company profits are way up. If I were either one I'd vote for Bush. The rest of you at your own risk. I don't like Kerry either, but I'm counting on a one term minimal damage presidency. I think we will outlast Al Quida and prevail. But to shrink and tremble is un American, and to let them cause us to alter our free society in the name of safety is unacceptable. Maybe Kerry will surprise us and be a great president, we know Bush won't.

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big fred

10-15-2004 14:50:22




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 Re: The Bushes...OFF TOPIC! in reply to RusselAZ, 10-15-2004 10:07:24  
Can't speak for others, but I have real problems with his soft-on-illegals policy. Also got real problems with subsidizing prescription drugs, especially without a means test.



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Joel Harman

10-15-2004 09:03:46




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 Re: The Bushes...OFF TOPIC! in reply to Fred OH, 10-15-2004 08:31:26  
follow the mnoey



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Paul in Mich

10-15-2004 19:32:06




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 Re: The Bushes...OFF TOPIC! in reply to JYD, 10-15-2004 08:54:24  
JYD, Does the mere mention of PBS ring any sort of a bell or raise a red flag in your mind? PBS is "public broadcasting system", which by its own definition means that it is government sponsored, which menas also that it has no accountability to a buying public. It can be even more biased than right-wing or left-wing talk radio or t.v. because of the fact that it is not based on free enterprise, therefore it is not accountable to its customers. Pravda, Izvestia, and Tass were not credible sources of information for the very same reason. I see nothing wrong with viewing PBS, but never would I put my faith in it as the true source for independant , and unbiased news or information. One would be far better off to read the W.S.J. as they are read by people who have the most to gain or lose based on credible information. They are also not beholden to any special interest group, as their information is closely scrutinized and discerned. Misinformation becomes costly to their subscribers. That translates to great accountability for truth and credibility. If it aint so, they dont print it.

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RusselAZ

10-15-2004 10:16:56




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 Re: The Bushes...OFF TOPIC! in reply to JYD, 10-15-2004 08:54:24  
Where would you find it? In Pravda?



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Indydirtfarmer

10-15-2004 08:57:22




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 And we KNOW it was the truth in reply to JYD, 10-15-2004 08:54:24  
Just because it was on TV, AND you agree...

Hope you're prepared to eat your words, come Nov. 2nd.



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