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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Oil out of exhault-why?????

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Jrry

10-11-2004 07:05:18




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My Oliver 1650 gas was running fine until I screwed the exhaust pipe into the manifold. Then it started to smoke and oil started coming out the pipe. Did I mess something up? What would cause this and what will I need to do to fix it? I posted on the oliver board but did not get a reply. thanks for any help.




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Redmud

10-12-2004 08:31:42




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 Re: Oil out of exhault-why????? in reply to Jrry, 10-11-2004 07:05:18  
Jrry,
If you have a miss then forget the oil in the muffler. pull the plugs and see which one has the oil on it unless you already know the cylinder that's missing. do the compression check. I think you will have to pull the head like Mark said. sometimes you hope for the best but it just don't work out.
Redmud:



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Jrry

10-13-2004 06:00:40




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 Re: Oil out of exhault-why????? in reply to Redmud, 10-12-2004 08:31:42  
Hey Redmud, do you know a source for new rings for this Oliver 1650? I checked this site and they were not listed. thanks, Jrry



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Mark - IN.

10-12-2004 22:39:05




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 Re: Oil out of exhault-why????? in reply to Redmud, 10-12-2004 08:31:42  
Hey Redmud, why didn't you correct me when I kept goin on and on about turbo and diesel fuel, and the likes? Could've called me a dummy and said "it's a gas".

Just caught your post about pullin the plugs and doin a compression test, and was wonderin what plugs on a diesel, so went back to original post. It's a gas!!! You're right, compression test is job/test one. Might even see a very well oiled plug.

Stupid me. No wonder my Mom still maintains I must've been the milk lady's kid, and not hers. LOL.

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Jrry

10-12-2004 11:14:51




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 Re: Oil out of exhault-why????? in reply to Redmud, 10-12-2004 08:31:42  
I agree that I'm gonna need to get inside the engine but it will be worth it since the tractor is in pretty good condition otherwise. thanks for the information, Jrry



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Redmud

10-11-2004 15:11:53




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 Re: Oil out of exhault-why????? in reply to Jrry, 10-11-2004 07:05:18  
Was it a muffler or stright pipe? if it was a muffler it may have had oil in it and drained down into the exhaust manifold.
Redmud:



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Mark - IN.

10-11-2004 16:11:59




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 Re: Oil out of exhault-why????? in reply to Redmud, 10-11-2004 15:11:53  
Well, that certainly is a possibility that I didn't think of. I was wonderin how the tractors's runnin after the muffler/stack was put on. No bangin? Nothin got dropped into the turbo (if has one) and broke then cracked somethin? No turbo, something down in the manifold ended up in a valve?

How's it runnin other than oil or smoke out the exhaust?

I do like Redmud's answer better - much simpler and cheaper.

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Jrry

10-12-2004 06:15:33




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 Re: Oil out of exhault-why????? in reply to Mark - IN., 10-11-2004 16:11:59  
Mark, The tractor is running good except one cylnder now has a miss. I'll try what Redmud suggusted first. I wish this was someone joking with me. I don't mind a joke now and again. I appreciate all the answers and they are very helpful.



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Mark - IN.

10-12-2004 22:18:26




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 Don't run it anymore in reply to Jrry, 10-12-2004 06:15:33  
If is missing (running flat) on a cylinder, sounds like you have a problem, and you don't want to make it worse by running it and causing more damage. First thing I'd do is check the oil for contamination (diesel fuel). But that may not tell you anything, unless have contamination. If don't have contamination, could still have a cracked or broken top ring and diesel not making it down past the lower rings. You could pull the valve cover and rotate the motor and watch for valve movement, or lack of. You could pull the exhaust manifold and look for an obvious freshly oiled exhaust port.

You may want to, and probably should pull the head.

I'd say don't run it anymore. If have a bent valve, running it could tear up the valve seat or combustion chamber, and slap a piston if haven't already - my buddy's head became scrap metal from the damage. If have any loose metal in the bore, can tear it up, and I have no clue what it's like to find a sleeve for any Oliver these days.

Keep us posted. I doubt that anyone's playin a joke on you, or would've let you off the hook by know.

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Mark - IN.

10-12-2004 22:30:02




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 Thought it was a diesel, I'm sorry in reply to Mark - IN., 10-12-2004 22:18:26  
Just caught Redmud's post. IS A GAS!!!! Do what he says, run a compression test first. Still don't run it anymore. Forget anything I said about turbo, is none. Forget diesel in the oil, look and smell for gasoline.

Won't need to pull the manifold to look for oil, a compression test will probably tell you which one is bad, and if have low compression, gonna pull the manifold anyway to get the head off.

You most certainly still van pull the valve cover and look for valve movement. Should all be the same movement (lift and duration).

You still don't want to run it though. A bad valve or cracked/broken ring will still tear it up worse.

I apologize, I didn't catch gas. I was thinking diesel. You should've said "Hey Mark, don't be stupid, it's a gas". I would've taken it well. Sorry.

Keep us posted.

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Jrry

10-13-2004 06:05:42




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 Re: Thought it was a diesel, I'm sorry in reply to Mark - IN., 10-12-2004 22:30:02  
Hey Mark-IN, I'm in no position to call anyone stupid and I would not anyway. I'm always asking questions on this site and I'm not much help to others. I appreciate your help and everyone else's. This is a great site. BTW do you know where I may find rings for this Oliver 1650. I checked this site but they were not listed for the 1650. thanks, Jrry



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Jon H

10-11-2004 17:37:07




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 Re: Oil out of exhault-why????? in reply to Mark - IN., 10-11-2004 16:11:59  
If the tractor is not making noises like it's trying to blowup,it may pay to let it run 10-15 min with the muffler removed to see if the smoke clears. A couple ounces of heavy oil or grease may take that long to burn out of the manifold.
Sure would be a lot easier to fix than a broken piston.



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Allan in NE

10-11-2004 16:37:11




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 Re: Oil out of exhault-why????? in reply to Mark - IN., 10-11-2004 16:11:59  
'Spose someone is playin' games with this poor fella?

Allan



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Mark - IN.

10-11-2004 16:49:37




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 Re: Oil out of exhault-why????? in reply to Allan in NE, 10-11-2004 16:37:11  
Could be Allan. I once did that to a friend, but let him off the hook. Exhaust off the turbo had a nice 180 degree bend under it, held about a gallon of water. I figured about a gallon, and poured in about a gallon, just enough to seal the exhaust off up to the turbo. When he fired it up, blew a gallon of what looked like Texas crude out his stack and all over his white barn. He shut it down right now, and I was laughin so hard that I was rollin on the ground in tears. He was walkin around that tractor scratchin his head and mad at me for laughin at his misfortune. When I finally got it out, he nearly beat my a$$. But he got over it right after I cleaned that unburnt sloshy mixture off of his barn.

But I swear I didn't do that to this feller. I swear it Allan.

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Redmud

10-11-2004 18:08:33




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 Re: Oil out of exhault-why????? in reply to Mark - IN., 10-11-2004 16:49:37  
Mark, I had piece of equipment to haul up north around N.Y. best I can remember, my driver was one of us, I mean them that thought they was Gods gift to women. I had never seen his wife, and she drove him to the yard the morning he was heading out with this load. I was checking out a piece of equipment that was parked next to the haul truck when they pulled in. She was driving a white T bird, white blouse,white pants. looked like a million dollars. it had rained all weekend and the truck had 6 inch stacks and no flappers. he cranked the engine and his wife whom was standing beside the truck turned black, along with the T bird. the drains were stopped up on the exhaust and I think we got 6-8 inches that weekend. the young lady divorced him over it, or at least that's what he said she divorced him for.
Redmud:

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Allan in NE

10-11-2004 17:01:03




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 Re: Oil out of exhault-why????? in reply to Mark - IN., 10-11-2004 16:49:37  
One time I was working in a shop and had just overhauled a little torque-flyte, which is one of easiest trannys ever.

Darned joker I worked with put a 2 foot 4X4 under the right rear tire where I couldn't see it.

When I went to back 'er out of the shop, it wouldn't pull; naturally I gave her a little more soup, and KABANG!

She jumped that block and threw it up under the bottom of the car with one heck of a racket..... ..I just knew I had split the case in two or some such thing.

I thought those guys were gonna die laughing at me. :>)

Allan

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Leland

10-11-2004 21:07:41




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 Re: Oil out of exhault-why????? in reply to Allan in NE, 10-11-2004 17:01:03  
No allen it's more fun to hot wire car seat and wait for them to start what a charge.



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UFO Man

10-11-2004 18:44:55




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 Re: Oil out of exhault-why????? in reply to Allan in NE, 10-11-2004 17:01:03  
Allen, that's exactly how he would have died if he had done that to me. I can think of a dozen ways to use a good chunk of lumber like that in a manner that would leave no doubt about my future intentions.

Actually, it probably was pretty funny. Cruel, unusual, but funny.

UFO Man



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davidn

10-11-2004 13:01:11




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 Re: Oil out of exhault-why????? in reply to Jrry, 10-11-2004 07:05:18  
I"d take it back off to see if the problem goes away to absolutely verify a causal relationship or just circumstance.



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Jrry

10-11-2004 13:50:16




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 Re: Oil out of exhault-why????? in reply to davidn, 10-11-2004 13:01:11  
I took it back off but the tractor continued to smoke and oil out the exhaust. The screwing the exhaust pipe into the manifold was the only thing I did to the tractor and it started the smoking at that time.



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txblu

10-11-2004 12:08:11




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 Re: Oil out of exhault-why????? in reply to Jrry, 10-11-2004 07:05:18  
Probably cause everyone was stumped, like me. Can't for the life of me figure out what changing the dimension of the exhaust pipe in the manifold would do to make the engine act up like that. Sure you didn't do something else?

Mark



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RAB

10-11-2004 13:41:53




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 Re: Oil out of exhault-why????? in reply to txblu, 10-11-2004 12:08:11  
txblu"
Not stumped really, just incredulous that someone might think the two are connected.
Regards, RAB



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Jrry

10-11-2004 13:55:22




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 Re: Oil out of exhault-why????? in reply to RAB, 10-11-2004 13:41:53  
Hey RAB, I did not say they were connected but that is the only thing that I did to the tractor. The tractor was not smoking before then nor was oil coming out the exhaust. I know on diesels this happens when idling sometimes but not on gas tractors. I'm sure you know more about tractors than I do but I did not see you answer the question. I have seen stranger things happen.



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Jon H

10-11-2004 16:08:10




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 Re: Oil out of exhault-why????? in reply to Jrry, 10-11-2004 13:55:22  
The two could very well be connected. If screwing the pipe into the manifold dislodged a fairly large lump of hard carbon in the exhaust manifold,or if the muffler had a loose bit of metal or rock in it,it may have fallen past the exhaust valve and into the cylinder. A hard bit of carbon,stone,metal can crush ring lands or crack a piston causing just the sort of problem your having. Did you notice a bit of unusual rattle or knock when you first started the tractor??

I had a hard lump of carbon break a piston in a V4 Wisconsin engine. The engine had been running for quite a while when it suddenly knocked a few times,then started to spew oil smoke from the exhaust and white smoke from the breather. Upon teardown I found a dime size chunk of hard carbon imbedded into the cracked dome of the piston. The lump of carbon had come loose from the valve area of the flathead Wisconsin.

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Jrry

10-12-2004 06:06:30




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 Re: Oil out of exhault-why????? in reply to Jon H, 10-11-2004 16:08:10  
Jon, that is what I was afraid may have happened. I went out last night and cranked it again and it did the same thing. I have not heard a noise or any kind of knock. I think something may have dislodged and broke a ring. The tractor does have a miss in at least one cylnder now but other than a miss, smoke and oil it runs good. I'm thinking I will need to go into the engine.



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Jon H

10-12-2004 18:14:10




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 Re: Oil out of exhault-why????? in reply to Jrry, 10-12-2004 06:06:30  
Yep,pull the head and pan. It sounds like somthing punched through a piston dome. Could be worse,I have seen them where a piston broke up and allowed the rod and piston pin to destroy the cylinder. As is,you may only need to replace one piston/rings assy. Have the rod checked to see if it is bent,and check the head/valves for damage. Good luck. JH



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Mark - IN.

10-11-2004 16:40:49




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 Re: Oil out of exhault-why????? in reply to Jon H, 10-11-2004 16:08:10  
Mr. Jon, I do believe that you just might be right. I went over to a friends after he tore it down, he wanted to show me a huge hole in a piston. He asked what I figured caused that, and I asked where the head was, when I flipped it over that valve was as smashed and bent as I've ever seen one from gettin slapped by that piston. In his case, either floated a valve because of a broken spring (didn't look at it that close), or more likely that the valve got stuck open at the wrong time by something.

Guess what I'd like to know is how's it runnin? Runnin flat on a cylinder? No bangin goin on in there? No wheezing because of a big hole in a piston? Diesel fuel in the oil because of a big hole in a piston? Maybe a valve got bent and oil's makin it down between the valve guide and stem? Lots of possibilities, but how's it runnin other than oil or oily smoke?

Hope it's somethin simple like Redmud mentioned, but does seem like an awful lot of oil and smoke. Could be lucky.

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Allan in NE

10-11-2004 17:05:20




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 Re: Oil out of exhault-why????? in reply to Mark - IN., 10-11-2004 16:40:49  
Mark,

Remember how this was "matter of course" for those first little 2.3 Ford engines when they broke a timing belt?

Allan



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