Welcome! Please use the navigational links to explore our website.
PartsASAP LogoCompany Logo Auction Link (800) 853-2651

Shop Now

   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver

Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Gasoline: Leaded or Unleaded ??

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author 
Bob T

09-08-2004 19:11:16




Report to Moderator

I aquired a Case 800 series tractor. Its a model 811-B. Built in 1958 . Do I have to use a lead additive in the fuel for this thing or can I just burn unleaded strait from the pump ? If I do use unleaded strait from the pump, what will happen ??




[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
Bob T

09-09-2004 18:00:33




Report to Moderator
 Re: Gasoline: Leaded or Unleaded ?? in reply to Bob T, 09-08-2004 19:11:16  
I appreciate all the input on my question. I am not going to work this tractor. I farmed for 10 yrs with my dad when i was younger. This tractor is going to be used on a brushog, backblade....just a utility sort of thing on our 25 acres. No plowing or working ground etc. What i'm getting from you guys is not to worry about addding anything and soon as I have to get the head redone then put in the correct seats. Am I getting it correctly ?

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
TheRealRon

09-10-2004 04:06:29




Report to Moderator
 Re: Gasoline: Leaded or Unleaded ?? in reply to Bob T, 09-09-2004 18:00:33  
Exactly. As long as you use the correct octane gas you should have no problems.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Dave Wis

09-10-2004 01:02:11




Report to Moderator
 Re: Gasoline: Leaded or Unleaded ?? in reply to Bob T, 09-09-2004 18:00:33  
I think you have it pretty much understood. The only parts that will wear, and then not drastically if you aren't working it long and/or hard, are the valves and seats. When you rebuild it you will replace them anyway so you aren't going to add any extra expense to a rebuild.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Leland

09-09-2004 13:12:51




Report to Moderator
 Re: Gasoline: Leaded or Unleaded ?? in reply to Bob T, 09-08-2004 19:11:16  
I have read that adding a cup of non-dert motor oil to unleaded gas will help lube upper end and stop wear from lack of lead.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
buickanddeere

09-10-2004 06:05:35




Report to Moderator
 Re: Gasoline: Leaded or Unleaded ?? in reply to Leland, 09-09-2004 13:12:51  
The soot from the unburned oil keeps the valve and seat from spot welding together.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Leland

09-10-2004 14:33:26




Report to Moderator
 Re: Gasoline: Leaded or Unleaded ?? in reply to buickanddeere, 09-10-2004 06:05:35  
O'k



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
TheRealRon

09-09-2004 04:25:01




Report to Moderator
 Re: Gasoline: Leaded or Unleaded ?? in reply to Bob T, 09-08-2004 19:11:16  
I agree, especially with Dave, but the general rule is this:

If the engine will be used for heavy work, then hard seats are a must. In all other cases, they are nice to have but certainly not required. The reason is that lead did provide some cushioning of valve/valve seat contact.

Of course, if the head comes off for another reason, then installing hard seats just makes sense.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Dave Wis

09-09-2004 00:40:46




Report to Moderator
 Re: Gasoline: Leaded or Unleaded ?? in reply to Bob T, 09-08-2004 19:11:16  
Just a couple of comments. Tetraethel lead was added for a couple reasons. It was initially developed to reduce the speed of flame travel during combustion which allowed for higher compression. It also cushioned the valve to seat contact area. Without it nonhardened seats wear much faster, however as stated for engines that are not run for hours daily it will take awhile to cause a problem. Contrary to some folks thinking higher octane gas does not, by itself, increase power. It allows us to do things to the engine that do produce more power, primarily increase compression and advance the timing. In fact we have found, on the dyno, that too high of octane for a given engine configuration will actually reduce power because it slows the burn rate too much. BTW Mr Kettering learned almost from the start that tetraethel lead was a deadly toxin but even then corporate profits were more important than peoples lives. Sound familiar?

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
george md

09-08-2004 23:27:06




Report to Moderator
 Re: Gasoline: Leaded or Unleaded ?? in reply to Bob T, 09-08-2004 19:11:16  
If you fellows worked in an automotive machine shop , you might have a different outlook on the no lead gas . Engines with hard seats or flame hardened cast seats don't have a problem with no lead gas. The older engines with the seats that are part of the head or those that had flame hardened seats that the hardening has been ground thru will wear the seat quite rapidly.For hobby or show tractors it will take a long time to cause a problem . Recommend that if you have the head
off for any other reason that you get seats installed
while it is off, saves the work and gaskets of
doing it later. I have had ford and chevy heads
in with the seat worn away so far that the lifter could not compensate for any more seat wear and
then burned the valve. Install a set of hard seats
and the problem goes away to stay. We did not have
this trouble before no lead gas.

george

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
buickanddeere

09-08-2004 22:42:57




Report to Moderator
 Re: Gasoline: Leaded or Unleaded ?? in reply to Bob T, 09-08-2004 19:11:16  
Just like todays automotive engines running on unleaded. Your tractor engine will last longer without the fouling,wear and plugging caused by lead deposits. My spelling and grammar is no prize but I think it's spelled "straight".



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
paul

09-08-2004 19:35:22




Report to Moderator
 Re: Gasoline: Leaded or Unleaded ?? in reply to Bob T, 09-08-2004 19:11:16  
You need to do a valve job on a tractor every 5000 hours or so. Runnig on unleaded gas, you might have to do the valve job at 4500 hours.

That will be a _lot_ cheaper than fooling around with the additives. Which are not lead anyhow, so seems like snake oil to me....

Some folks swear by the additives. Fine with me. It's a lot cheaper to just run on unleaded. What do you think it's been running on the last 20 years???? :)

--->Paul

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Ray,IN

09-08-2004 20:12:15




Report to Moderator
 Re: Gasoline: Leaded or Unleaded ?? in reply to paul, 09-08-2004 19:35:22  
I agree. MY TO30, super M, and MF135 have ran on unleaded ever since it became the standard fuel. Lead did not reduce the valve/seat heat or protect them. It was added to gasoline to raise the octane.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Alberta Mike

09-08-2004 20:17:05




Report to Moderator
 Re: Gasoline: Leaded or Unleaded ?? in reply to Ray,IN, 09-08-2004 20:12:15  
Any explanation of how adding lead raises the octane rating? Sounds interesting but I am not a chemist so I'm wondering how or why that would work.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Ray,IN

09-09-2004 20:17:49




Report to Moderator
 Re: Gasoline: Leaded or Unleaded ?? in reply to Alberta Mike, 09-08-2004 20:17:05  
Hi Mike! I seem to remember emailing you a link a year or so back to the website(Canadian) explaining in great detail what Joe has done in one short paragraph. I have since lost that link in one of my virus encounters. I'll attempt to locate the website again.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
JoeK

09-08-2004 20:28:31




Report to Moderator
 Re: Gasoline: Leaded or Unleaded ?? in reply to Alberta Mike, 09-08-2004 20:17:05  
Yrs ago when compression pressures began climbing tetraethyl lead was added to the mix to slow down the violent explosion of the fuel/air mix(detonation)and provide a better"push" against the piston on the power stroke and cool the compression chamber/valves.Most engines under 8.5:1 compression or so and 2 strokes have no need for this.Lead substitution additives are principally for use in high compression engines,such as the muscle car engines of the 60s.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Joe Evans

09-08-2004 20:40:44




Report to Moderator
 Re: Gasoline: Leaded or Unleaded ?? in reply to JoeK, 09-08-2004 20:28:31  
JoeK: you are a learned man. Likely you already know this, but for the benefit of others, Charles Kettering, who is best known for the invention of the electric starter, is also credited with the discovery of the anti-knock qualities of tetraethyl lead while employed by the USAAC to experiment with eliminating detonation. An argument can be made that his work led to superior fighter plane engine performance during WW II, which was as important (maybe more so) as the invention of the A-bomb.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:


TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
We sell tractor parts!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy