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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Crushed roller bearing?

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Coloken

09-02-2004 20:13:38




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I am hearing rumers, second and third hand, of rollers in taper wheel bearing being crushed (split?). Maybe from overload. Have any of you seen or been around this happening? I have seen a lot of bad bearings but never one from bad steel. I wonder about cheap bearings. This kind of has to do with overloaded trailers.




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txblu

09-03-2004 05:51:48




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 Re: Crushed roller bearing? in reply to Coloken, 09-02-2004 20:13:38  
I think a bearing is made from a preselected metallic powder which is placed in a mold and a piston (press) comes down on it and literally smashes it into molecular attachment.

Really tough, but brittle.

I have hammered on bearings and races before and they take pounding for a time then yield by desintegrating. That tells me that a constant load is not a failure mechanism for the bearings mentioned; shock load is.

So where is the source of the shock? I doubt that the shock of a tire on pavement is adequate.

My 18 wheeler experience with high loads for long periods on roller bearings is a graying and dulling of the surface with slight pitting. If heat is included, due to inadequate lubrication, then there is some purpling of the medal.

My 2c.

Mark

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Coloken

09-03-2004 06:33:05




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 Re: Crushed roller bearing? in reply to txblu, 09-03-2004 05:51:48  
I hear you, and thanks for the comments. If what I hear is true, its got to be from bad quality bearings that would have quit any way. Along the same thoughts, I have a light pickup rear end here that was used regularly to pull a bumper trailer. The side bearing look like it is beginning to flake. Ready to go out. Same thing on the little spider gears. I figure from the constant shock (click?). Some thing to be said for the rubber mounted draw bars. Oh yea. the pickup had only 100,000. I had just bought it a week befor.

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txblu

09-03-2004 10:02:43




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 Re: Crushed roller bearing? in reply to Coloken, 09-03-2004 06:33:05  
Glad you're catching them early.

Mark



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txblu

09-03-2004 10:04:53




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 Re: Crushed roller bearing? in reply to txblu, 09-03-2004 10:02:43  
Correction to original post, last sentence,

From: medal
To: metal

Sorry,

Mark



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Allan in NE

09-03-2004 03:28:54




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 Re: Crushed roller bearing? in reply to Coloken, 09-02-2004 20:13:38  
Hi ya Ken,

I've seen countless tapered roller bearings over the years that have failed because of improper, or should I say, "insufficient" pre-load.

I don't know what it is about repacking wheel bearings that makes people think they need to be "backed off" a partial turn; that's the worst thing that can be done.

Running an unloaded tapered roller bearing is the fastest way I know of ruining it. They first get hot, then they start peeling like an onion.

Dunno, it must be a throw back from the old days of roller bearings or something.

Allan

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1945A

09-03-2004 06:25:54




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 Re: Crushed roller bearing? in reply to Allan in NE, 09-03-2004 03:28:54  
The "backing off" is for those that tighten the bearings (they are tapered) to the point that the bearing no longer turns freely. It is possible to put too much preload on a bearing. I"ve repacked countless wheel bearings over the years, and have always tightened to where they are just snug, and then "backed off to the first available slot that would allow the cotter pin to be reinstalled-----and haven"t lost a wheel bearing yet.....

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Allan in NE

09-03-2004 07:45:46




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 Re: Crushed roller bearing? in reply to 1945A, 09-03-2004 06:25:54  
1954A,

Even the smallest of tapered roller bearings must be loaded and should be torqued to a minimum of 12 ft-lbs. They are designed this way.

The proceedure of pulling them to "snug" and then backing off to the "first available slot" is just plain the wrong way to do it and is an old habit which has been carried over from the old-fashioned 'ball bearing' type wheel bearing days.

And, I am certainly not trying to start a range war either,

Allan

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thurlow

09-03-2004 08:04:44




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 Re: Crushed roller bearing? in reply to Allan in NE, 09-03-2004 07:45:46  
Hey Allan, I'm not trying to start a 'range-war' either..... certainly we can agree to disagree. Check out the link to Timken's Tech Tips and tell me what you think..... ..It seems to reinforce my (and others) method of tightening and backing off, etc...



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Allan in NE

09-03-2004 08:28:34




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 Re: Crushed roller bearing? in reply to thurlow, 09-03-2004 08:04:44  
Hey Ole Pard!

I don't have to; 'cause strangely enough, I've seen the same goofy instructions in some owner's manuals too. :>)

That doesn't make it right nor does it make it correct. Talk to any engineer or better yet, just simply take a few minutes and think about the design of the bearing itself. It simply has to be pre-loaded if it is tapered.

Furthermore, any Vo-Tech school or any Manufactures’ training course in the country will confirm what I’m saying here.

Hmmmm, now you don’t ‘spose just by chance that we are setting up the buying public for some future sales with this wee bit of hog-wash?

Hope you have a good day,

Allan

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Coloken

09-03-2004 06:18:55




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 Re: Crushed roller bearing? in reply to Allan in NE, 09-03-2004 03:28:54  
It comes from the way to adjust the old Chev front wheel bearing. Every body knew it. I was dang near 50 years old befor I learned better. Old habits are hard to break.



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Nebraska Cowman

09-03-2004 03:40:33




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 Re: Crushed roller bearing? in reply to Allan in NE, 09-03-2004 03:28:54  
Allan, glad to hear your comments. When I repack bearings there are allways a couple that seem "plenty tight" but I run them anyway and have never lost a wheel yet.



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Allan in NE

09-03-2004 03:51:16




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 Re: Crushed roller bearing? in reply to Nebraska Cowman, 09-03-2004 03:40:33  
NC,

Yes, and I always "spin em" as I tighten to the torque spec just to make sure they seat right.

I think overtightening is way better on a tapered bearing than running it loose it it's cage. Run loose, the bearing is taking the "load" on it's edge and not it's face.

Pray for rain,

Allan



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Mike M

09-03-2004 07:46:43




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 Re: Crushed roller bearing? in reply to Allan in NE, 09-03-2004 03:51:16  
I think you did pray for rain, it just ended up in Ohio. This is the only year I know of that the lawn mower did not get to rest in the summer.



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Weirsdale George

09-02-2004 20:51:02




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 Re: Crushed roller bearing? in reply to Coloken, 09-02-2004 20:13:38  
I had a wheel bearing tear up on a Kawasaki Mule last year. The ball bearing cage disintegrated into little pieces. I talked to a bearing supplier and he said they are seeing more and more of this type of failure from off-shore bearing manufacturers. This might be a sign of things to come for all bearings.



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Mark - IN.

09-02-2004 20:31:26




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 Re: Crushed roller bearing? in reply to Coloken, 09-02-2004 20:13:38  
No I have not seen a roller bearing disintegrate many years. About as long since saw a ball bearing do it. But in both "PAST" cases, just well worn or not properly maintained. Good question though, many companies are out-sourcing to overseas countries to cut costs, increase profits, avoid ambulance chasing defective products lawyers looking for instant $$$, at the expense of marketing inferior products costing as though they were manufactured here at higher labor rates. Hmm? Good question. Do you suppose that outsourcing has hit Timkin as well? I never thought about it, but hate to think so, and wouldn't be surprised. A Chinese manufactured Timkin? Nawwwww...??? Hmm?

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Eddie Petty

09-03-2004 06:54:44




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 Re: Crushed roller bearing? in reply to Mark - IN., 09-02-2004 20:31:26  
....to prove to yourself the 'cost-cutting' concept: pop the shield off a double shielded bearing and note the scant amount of grease the OEM put in there !!!



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markct

09-03-2004 09:28:08




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 Re: Crushed roller bearing? in reply to Eddie Petty, 09-03-2004 06:54:44  
there are different amounts of grease neccesary for different rpm ranges and other factors for bearings, i always thought that a bearing fully packed was best but later learned from engineering books and such that having it fully packed can create problems also, there is a proper amount that is best for the bearing



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Allan in NE

09-03-2004 10:06:47




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 Re: Crushed roller bearing? in reply to markct, 09-03-2004 09:28:08  
Hi Eddie,

Agree with you 1000% on that one; you are right on the money.

Allan



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