TRACTOR PARTS Allis Chalmers Case & David Brown Farmall & International Ferguson Ford & New Holland John Deere Massey Ferguson Massey Harris Minneapolis Moline Oliver & Cockshutt Kubota / Yanmar

TRACTOR MANUALS

Allis Chalmers	Case	Farmall IH	Ford 8N,9N,2N	Ford
Ferguson	John Deere	Massey Ferguson	Minn. Moline	Oliver

Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

The final answer is...

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register

Author

Ron

07-30-2004 06:30:19

Report to Moderator

I sent the following email to the technical service folks at Firestone AG...

Greetings,

Given all else equal, one tractor has 75% liquid ballast in the rears, the other has the identical weight in wheel weights... is there any difference in the amount of fuel used by these two tractors?

Thank you!

Their reply...

"We have never run any tests to confirm this as the difference would likely be negligible.

Tech, Quest"

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Del

07-30-2004 20:49:28

Report to Moderator

Re: The final answer is... in reply to Ron, 07-30-2004 06:30:19

Iron or liquid = weight= soil compaction. I know soil compaction is a major battle for me. Every year or so I can pick up a few acres that have been farmed heavy by someone who ran large heavy equipment and ran rain or shine. One field still has about an acre where a fellow buried his combine with a full tank of corn in the bin. Three 100+ hp tractors would not pull it out so they hocked two of the tractors on a wagon and went in and got the corn out of the tank then were able to pull the combine out.I think that spot needs ripped 6 ft deep.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Bill Drew

07-30-2004 12:36:35

Report to Moderator

Depend on surface in reply to Ron, 07-30-2004 06:30:19

The friction from moving liquid is a compelling arguement, but since that is a small effect, the real answer is likely to depend on the soil. I expect that there will be a different profile of the tire on the soil with the filled tire. That will will mean different friction/slip between the surface and the tire. Likely different results for asphalt, wet grass, sticky clay, ...

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Dumb Question

07-30-2004 19:20:05

Report to Moderator

Re: Depend on surface in reply to Bill Drew, 07-30-2004 12:36:35

Might be a Silly Question, but running tires 75% full of liquid, In road gear, does the liquid ever cause any imbalance ? It seems like it would be hard for it to stay in bottom of tire at 20 MPH.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Ron

07-31-2004 05:48:37

Report to Moderator

Re: Depend on surface in reply to Dumb Question , 07-30-2004 19:20:05

Not a silly question. No, it doesn't. At 60 mph it might be a different story but I'm not willing to test that!

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

David

07-30-2004 07:55:37

Report to Moderator

Re: The final answer is... in reply to Ron, 07-30-2004 06:30:19

The final answer is actually 300+ years old and is called Newton's 2nd law of motion.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Ron

07-30-2004 08:04:19

Report to Moderator

Re: The final answer is... in reply to David, 07-30-2004 07:55:37

Read the question carefully. Mass is IDENTICAL, therefore F=MA will be exactly identical in both cases.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Mike (WA)

07-30-2004 08:23:19

Report to Moderator

Re: The final answer is... in reply to Ron, 07-30-2004 08:04:19

But the fluid filled tires have the friction of the tire going around and fluid trying to stay on the bottom- no such problem with hanging weights. Would be easy to test- use same tractor to plow an acre, first with fluid, then drain fluid and hang weights- measure the fuel used in each test. I do see where the fluid would sure make the tractor more stable on hillsides.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

G-MAN

07-30-2004 07:45:09

Report to Moderator

Re: The final answer is... in reply to Ron, 07-30-2004 06:30:19

Pretty much what I said all along as well. I'm sure there IS a difference, but #1) is it measurable, and #2 how would you measure it. A chassis dyno wouldn't work, because fields aren't made out of flat pieces of steel.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Indydirtfarmer

07-30-2004 06:51:38

Report to Moderator

Re: The final answer is... in reply to Ron, 07-30-2004 06:30:19

Something tells me there'll never be a "final" answer on this subject. One word keeps crossing my mind....."Variables". No two of us uses a tractor in the same manner. We all have different workloads, different tires, different soils, even different "operator habits". That MAY offset any minute advantage fluid has over cast iron, or vice versa. Bottom line..... Good subject for a debate, but such a small consideration in the grand scheme of things, that it doesn't really matter. All things being equal, I don't like fluid in tires for the simple reason it's a royal pain to fix a flat..... .....John

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Allan in NE

07-30-2004 07:00:53

Report to Moderator

Re: The final answer is... in reply to Indydirtfarmer, 07-30-2004 06:51:38

Mornin' John,

No doubt about that...fluid and flats don't mix.

Just for fun tho, when was the last time you had a flat tire....on anything?

The last one I had one was in the fall of 1978 on an old pickup. Tires have changed quite a bit over the last few years and are just built 'better' in my opinion.

Just stirrin' the pot as I usually do. :>)

Allan

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

kyhayman

07-30-2004 11:49:27

Report to Moderator

Re: The final answer is... in reply to Allan in NE, 07-30-2004 07:00:53

No flats since '78, wow! I just had 7 this year (to date) and thought it was grand. Only one was on a tractor rear. Worst year even was in '96 (when I ran many flat wagons instead of a single NH bale wagon), had 65; and 3 of those were tractor rears. Between staples out of old fences, sharp rocks, roofs blowing off, and what the creek brings me I just figure on 20 or so a year. Try to keep at least 1 of each size and lug pattern mounted up as a spare. This year didn't work 2 well, 3 of the 7 were in 1 day moving round bales. All on flat wagons, all 16", 8 lug and me with only 1 8 lug 16" mounted spare.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

thurlow

07-30-2004 11:15:41

Report to Moderator

Re: The final answer is... in reply to Allan in NE, 07-30-2004 07:00:53

Hey Allan; since we're about to get this settled here and on the JD board, how about getting this one answered for me; I'm afraid to ask. Been going around and around with this in Sunday School; coupla of 'em have about lost their religion..... ....How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?????

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Indydirtfarmer

07-30-2004 08:49:50

Report to Moderator

Re: The final answer is... in reply to Allan in NE, 07-30-2004 07:00:53

If there's such a thing as a "national average" for flats on a tractor, I'm keeping your "no flats" equally balanced..... .
besides farming, my son and I bush hog properties for several commercial realators in Louisville, Ky. We run nearly 500 hours last summer, and looks to be a "better year" this time around. When bush hogging "city lots", we encounter everything. (Car rims, Bicycle frames, concrete blocks, AND boards with BIG ol' rusty nails. We have, on the average, a flat a week. (Be it a front or a rear) One of the tractors runs fluid in the tires. (To help with the center of gravity)
I quit using CaCl years ago. I grew tired of replacing rims. I run methyl alcohol (windshield washer solution) in those tractors that have fluid in them all winter. I have recently started using plain water, and vacuum pumping them dry for winter. (No problems in 2 years of doing so)
Long story short..... I hate the hassle of fluid filled tires. I like radial tires. (They DO work better without fluid) I also advocate using lighter weight tractors, with smaller impliments, at a higher ground speed. Much easier on equipment, easier to transport, and less soil compaction.....
You will NEVER get me to say ANYTHING good about fluid in tires..... ....John

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

07-30-2004 07:44:22

Report to Moderator

Re: The final answer is... in reply to Allan in NE, 07-30-2004 07:00:53

Allan, you havent had a flat since 78??? You are lucky. Last flat I had....last night on a 24 foot cattle trailer and yes, FULL of cows/calves. Seems I have a flat anytime I hook to a trailer. Had to change it on highway surface and block traffic because recent rain has the ground so wet. Then I remembered why Granddad carried smudge pots with him every where he went.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Leland

07-30-2004 21:01:35

Report to Moderator

Re: The final answer is... in reply to KX, 07-30-2004 07:44:22

KX I'll bet the flat was on the rear axle. you can stop a lot of flats by welding a thin plate of steel between axels. bacause most flats on trailers are caused by front picking up something and throwing into rear tires.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

08-02-2004 07:12:12

Report to Moderator

Re: The final answer is... in reply to Leland, 07-30-2004 21:01:35

You are right, the one in front is usually the culprit. THANKS.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Leland

08-02-2004 16:13:09

Report to Moderator

Re: The final answer is... in reply to KX, 08-02-2004 07:12:12

I thought so. When I worked in a tire shop 85%of flats on trailers were on rear axle. And it never failed at 10 oclock at nite when I got a call , it was some poor sole like yourself trailer full of cattle.and the damn things would not stand still while you tried to change that tire go figure. I hope that plate solves most of your flat tire problems good luck

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Allan in NE

07-30-2004 08:25:27

Report to Moderator

Re: The final answer is... in reply to KX, 07-30-2004 07:44:22

KX,

Aw heck! Sorry to hear about your bad experience.

Hope you understand that with my smart mouth, I'm just tryin' to raise a little he!! here. :>)

I've been hit in the mouth so many times that I don't even have to practice falling down anymore. :>)

Have a good one,

Allan

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

07-30-2004 09:19:13

Report to Moderator

Re: The final answer is... in reply to Allan in NE, 07-30-2004 08:25:27

I didn't really consider it a bad experience..... just normal life around the farm. You learn quick what you need in your truck, I try to carry two spares all the time and ALWAYS at least one. I had that trailer rolling again in 5 minutes.

Keep up the good fight.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Allen in Missouri (Harle

07-30-2004 07:43:30

Report to Moderator

Re: The final answer is... in reply to Allan in NE, 07-30-2004 07:00:53

You can sure get things cooking Allan, and I like the S##T out of that. If things get a little dull, throw a yellowjacket under the covers and you'll get all kinds of action. On the original note, I bought some hay from a feller up by Ozark, Mo. last year and he wanted to pick it up out of the field. I didn't have a problem with that, so he took his White 2-105 or some such number, it doesn't matter, out there and about half way through ran over a stub of an ancient steel post and ruptured a rear tire with fluid in it. I hauled him in my partially loaded hay truck and trailer back to his house where he called the local (and only) tire shop that could remove fluid, repair the tire, and replace the fluid. A little aggravating, but things happen and so far it is just one of those things that happen on the farm, right. Well now it really gets weird. The kid shows up and I have no idea how a fifteen year old gets a drivers liscence down here, but he couldn't have been much older than that, and I know this is the best job he has ever had, because he has that Wal-Mart, McDonald's look about him, and I know right away we're in trouble. The hay man ran his tire around till the leak was at the top right away when he noticed he ran over something so he wouldn't lose all of his fluid. Well the boy puts a fitting and then a hose on the tire, starts his pump up, and commences draining the fluid. When his first thirty gallon barrel is full, yes thirty gallon, he looks at us with this far-away look in his eye and says "I don't think it's all going to fit in here." Now right away I know this youngster is destined for big things in his future. Since he left the barrel open topped in the back of his truck, we tied down what bales I had on my trailer, loaded the kid up, and went to town to get another barrel, came back and proceeded to remove the rest of the fluid. Got that done and then he tried breaking the bead loose on the 18.4-38 to get to the tube. After about an hour of this I gave up and went home and told them I would be back in the morning to get the rest of my hay. When I got there the next day, the hay man said it sook that kid and him almost six hours to finally get the tube replaced in the tire. To boil it down, It just don't matter if I spend fifty dollars a year in extra fuel, you couldn't give me fluid for rear tractor tires if it was free. Hang steel, be done with it. There, Allan and you thought YOU could vent. Good luck up there in Bohunk country, Harley

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Allan in NE

07-30-2004 08:17:16

Report to Moderator

Re: The final answer is... in reply to Allen in Missouri (Harle, 07-30-2004 07:43:30

Yeah, but Harley,

Other than that one little mishap, how'd the rest of the day go? LOL!

Thanks for the great read... enjoyed every word!!

Allan

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Mike M

07-30-2004 06:45:53

Report to Moderator

Re: The final answer is... in reply to Ron, 07-30-2004 06:30:19

I think they know what they are talking about.
P.S. That is also pretty much what I said in my first reply to this subject. Sorry I just had to toot my own horn a bit.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

[Options] [Printer Friendly] [Posting Help] [Return to Forum] [Log in to Reply]

TRACTOR PARTS	TRACTOR MANUALS

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home | Forums

Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.
All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy