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OT: what is a better product than roundup?

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Bob

07-05-2004 04:58:26




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I need to kill grass and weeds in the gravel drive and was wondering is there a product that is better than roundup. Do any of you guys that farm use a more potent chemical?




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Nolan

07-06-2004 04:48:10




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 Re: OT: what is a better product than roundup? in reply to Bob, 07-05-2004 04:58:26  
We've found Crossbow to be far more effective then Roundup.



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cockshuttguy

07-06-2004 04:43:58




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 Re: OT: what is a better product than roundup? in reply to Bob, 07-05-2004 04:58:26  
A hoe works well and is healthier by a long shot.



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Ron

07-06-2004 04:39:11




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 Re: OT: what is a better product than roundup? in reply to Bob, 07-05-2004 04:58:26  
Anybody else see the program on DirecTV last night about the guy who inhaled Roundup and spent 30 days on a heart-lung machine?

I think I'll stick to aspirin for my headaches!



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leland

07-05-2004 20:08:28




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 Re: OT: what is a better product than roundup? in reply to Bob, 07-05-2004 04:58:26  
just use TOTAL VEGATATION KILLER some of that stuff kills for over a year. using round up the grass and weeds come back in a couple of months



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leland

07-05-2004 20:05:17




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 Re: OT: what is a better product than roundup? in reply to Bob, 07-05-2004 04:58:26  
just use TOTAL VEGATATION KILLER some of that stuff kills for over a year. using round up the grass and weeds come back in a couple of months



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John A

07-05-2004 19:45:17




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 Re: OT: what is a better product than roundup? in reply to Bob, 07-05-2004 04:58:26  
Bob, Maybe the problem is the rate that you are mixing the Roundup.
I mix in a 3 gal hand sprayer for the small projects at a rate of 1.5 oz/gal of H20. Kills johnson grass, Blood weeds, Works pretty good on poison ivy, And grasses, grave yard dead!
Hope this helps.
Later,
John A.



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Jerry/MT

07-05-2004 13:51:23




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 Re: OT: what is a better product than roundup? in reply to Bob, 07-05-2004 04:58:26  
There are some soil sterilants like borate salts but I personally wouldn't us 'em. Glysophate is the active ingredient in Roundup and there are plenty of grass and weedkillers out there that you can find at Ace and True Value stores that have that as an active ingredient.
Just out of curiosity why do you think that we ranchers and farmers have accsess to "more potent chemicals"? No matter what we use, we can only legally use them at label rates for the specific crops they are registered for. I suppose there are still people that use diesel and drain oil but I think that they are few and far between.

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BEN in KS

07-05-2004 13:04:05




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 Re: OT: what is a better product than roundup? in reply to Bob, 07-05-2004 04:58:26  
I have had good luck with a product named Honcho. It is a glysophate/Roundup clone. It is considerably less expensive; again, no residual.



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Ron

07-05-2004 11:05:29




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 Re: OT: what is a better product than roundup? in reply to Bob, 07-05-2004 04:58:26  
Read this...

http://www.mercola.com/2001/aug/1/lymphoma.htm



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Paul in Mich

07-06-2004 10:58:30




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 Re: Re: OT: what is a better product than roundup? in reply to Ron, 07-05-2004 11:05:29  
Ron, Strictly junk science. "researchers suspect"? Which researchers? We're not looking for evidence beyond a shadow of a doubt, but you cant even provide evidence with reasonable doubt. Junk science in its most vulgar form. We here in Michigan conducted a test of all criminals convicted of murder, and the common denominator was that they all drank milk as children. Does that mean that drinking milk causes one to commit murder? I'll leave that answer up to you. Round up is the most environmentally friendly herbicide ever developed and is safe for humans to handle. You could add a cupful to your children's bath water and it wont hurt them let alone cause cancer. Unless science and research boldly says and backs the claim up with realistic and relevant data, not just useless and irrelevant, which clouds the issue, that a product does indeed cause cancer or other harmfull effects, then they arent saying anything at all, only voicing an opinion from an activist's point of view. Suspected dangers are not real dangers, and have no validity.None, zero, zilch, nada. Now, if you want to make a believer of me, go find actual proof, determined by relevant data, and I'll be your biggest advocate, but dont come here with this "may cause", "some scientists suspect", "tests reveal a possibility", it ain't gonna fly.

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Ron

07-05-2004 13:32:54




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 Re: Re: Re: OT: what is a better product than roun in reply to JT, 07-05-2004 13:24:36  
'tis the season for conservatives and morons.

Perhaps the next time you have a headache you can swallow a quart or two of Roundup.



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Paul in Mich

07-06-2004 18:29:51




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: OT: what is a better product than in reply to Ron, 07-05-2004 13:32:54  
Ron, Obviously, you miss the point entirely. The fact is that roundup is less dangerous to human contact than many of the household cleaners and grocery shelf products. Laundry bleach is more harmful, oven cleaner is more harmless, dishwasher detergent is more harmless, there is nothing dangerous about roundup. it can't leach into the groundwater, it is harmless if you come in contact with it on your skin, it wont kill you if it ends up in the drainage system. will it make a good topping for your icecream, I doubt it, but it wont kill you if your icecream cones in contact with it. Now I'd like to hear from you just exactly the hazards are with roundup. and I would like you to be able to cite one single case of cancer caused by roundup. I bet you can't. We aren't talking agent orange here, so I don't think you can honestly equate roundup with agent orange. Water has killed more people than roundup has. Short of roundup, what would you suggest in its place?

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paul

07-05-2004 20:19:53




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: OT: what is a better product than in reply to Ron, 07-05-2004 13:32:54  
So then we should put 2 aspirin on the driveway & all will be well? :)

Pretty funny,

--->Paul



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SmallOps

07-08-2004 02:36:09




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: OT: what is a better product t in reply to paul, 07-05-2004 20:19:53  
Paul, you are close to the correct solution involving asprin.

Bob, With the addition of a case of beer to the whole process, you can get your driveway weed problem under control by following these simple steps:

1.) Drink the case of beer as rapidly as you are able to.

2.) Around the tenth beer, or when courage permits, drink atleast a pint of Roundup...

3.) Once Bladder evacuation begins, direct the stream onto the offending vegetation.

4.) At the end of this process, take the asprin.

Repeat as necessary. 8^)

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john in la

07-05-2004 10:11:44




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 Re: OT: what is a better product than roundup? in reply to Bob, 07-05-2004 04:58:26  
Recommending herbicide is iffy at best with out knowing your soil type ect. Just look at the list of herbicide / insecticide that is available in one state and not others or the list that is available for commercial use only and you will see what I mean.

With that said have you considered using a propane flame torch to burn the weeds. It is better than dragging and laying back down the drive because it does not affect the compaction and has NO soil / ground water residual.

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mike

07-05-2004 09:10:04




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 Re: OT: what is a better product than roundup? in reply to Bob, 07-05-2004 04:58:26  
if availibility is a problem how about a 5lb per gallon mix of calcium chloride flakes and water.Readily availible and will burn green stuff down to the roots, is more effective on broadleaf weeds. Sprinkle it on burdock and watch the plant wither before your eyes



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Dieselrider

07-05-2004 16:12:14




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 Re: Re: OT: what is a better product than roundup? in reply to mike, 07-05-2004 09:10:04  
Hey Mike, That sounds good but, how hard will it be on spray equipment? Also how heavy do you need to spray, totally wet the leaves like roundup? Thanks.



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JT

07-05-2004 08:26:50




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 Re: OT: what is a better product than roundup? in reply to Bob, 07-05-2004 04:58:26  
I agree Roundup is about as potent as you can get. What you need to remember is that it will only kill what it touches. This means that the seeds under the gravel can and will still sprout.

I use Extreme (mentioned earlier) in my beans. It is a mix of Roundup and Pursuit. Will have a residual that Roundup doesn't so I can't double it up in the field or corn won't grow there next year.

Here is the kicker I think it is a registered pesticide which means you will need a license to purchase it. Most any of the more modern herbicides will be registered unless they have gone through the clearance process for homeowner use.

License isn't a big deal just need to pass a written test to obtain and go to continueing ed every year to keep.

Just got to thinking you may try Spike. It is a Treflan derivitave that is approved for homeowner use. Will have a residual also.

HTH

JT

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paul

07-05-2004 08:23:24




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 Re: OT: what is a better product than roundup? in reply to Bob, 07-05-2004 04:58:26  
ClearOut 41 Plus is a cheaper generic 'same thing' product made of glysophate.

Glysophate (active ingrediant in Roundup, etc.) does a good job of killing most all green plants. It is one of the safer chemicals, as it breaks down rapidly on soil contact. You need to use a bit heavy to control large grasses. It will _not_ keep any residual action, So, the next day new weeds will stsrt to sprout & grow.

You can get products that stay active in the soil for a longer time, & control these sprouting weeds. You will need a combination, as some chemicals control broadleaves, some control grasses. However, if your kids & pets play on the driveway, they will be in some contact with these longer-lasting chemicals.

You can use the driveway more, or blade/grade it every once in a while. This also controls the weeds.

--->Paul

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buickanddeere

07-05-2004 08:28:10




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 Re: Re: OT: what is a better product than roundup? in reply to paul, 07-05-2004 08:23:24  
What are your thoughts on mixing "Round-Up" with light cooking oil so it sticks to the plant leaves. Doesn't polute like mixing with kerosene or diesel fuel.



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veggieman

07-07-2004 14:00:55




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 Re: Re: Re: OT: what is a better product than roun in reply to buickanddeere, 07-05-2004 08:28:10  
You should use soap instead of oils. The idea is to make the Roundup work better by making the water wetter, thus spreading it on waxy weed leaf surfaces better. I use equal parts plain roundup and laundry detergent and it works great. Some newer Roundup mixes have enough surfactant(soap) but you usually pay more or they have less active ingredient. However, if its going to rain within 4 hours after spraying you'll have more success with a faster acting conglomeration like Roundup-Ultra

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paul

07-05-2004 20:08:12




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 Re: Re: Re: OT: what is a better product than roun in reply to buickanddeere, 07-05-2004 08:28:10  
Which version of Roundup? The WeatherMax version already has all that added, add more & you will give yourself problems.... On the other hand, a generic ClearOut cheapest product will need a surficant. I'd use a real one, not just cooking oil, tho the oil would be better than nothing. Diesel fuel was a long ago solution, there are much better ones now.

There are many formulations of glysophate sold, from the low-ball Chineese products with no additives, to the top shelf, everything included product from Monsanto. Be real careful what you mix or what you advise others to mix with 'Roundup' when everyone is using a different product. :)

--->Paul

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Bill(Wis)

07-05-2004 14:57:11




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 Re: Re: Re: OT: what is a better product than roun in reply to buickanddeere, 07-05-2004 08:28:10  
I believe the main reason for adding ammonium sulfate as mentioned earlier is to make the mix sticky.



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paul

07-05-2004 20:12:48




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: OT: what is a better product than in reply to Bill(Wis), 07-05-2004 14:57:11  
That's a source of N, it is a foliar feeding & makes the plant grow faster - while absorbing the chemical, the faster growth makes some plants die better to be exposed to the chemical while rapidly growing.

Not so much the case with glysophate as far as I know, you would rather have a sticky oil type additive - I think.

--->Paul



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ZK(WA)

07-05-2004 11:31:32




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 Re: Re: Re: OT: what is a better product than roun in reply to buickanddeere, 07-05-2004 08:28:10  
Hey Buick,
Diesel Fuel as a sticker ? I thought Diesel acted more like a spreader and breaks down the surface tension of water like soap does. Or am I at OOPS, another gray haired moment passing thru ?



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thurlow

07-05-2004 09:52:03




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 Re: Re: Re: OT: what is a better product than roun in reply to buickanddeere, 07-05-2004 08:28:10  
The performance of most herbicides can be improved by the addition of surfactants/crop oils.....although lately many are sold with the additives already there. Link to Colorado State's site with some good information.....



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Mark

07-05-2004 08:09:01




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 Re: OT: what is a better product than roundup? in reply to Bob, 07-05-2004 04:58:26  
For tough to kill weeds mix roundup with ammonium sulfate and prowl(1 oz. per gal).
Prowl is a preemergent for corn and so it helps keep weeds from coming back and it also makes the roundup kill weeds that it normally will not kill.

Mark



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Ryan

07-05-2004 07:49:48




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 Re: OT: what is a better product than roundup? in reply to Bob, 07-05-2004 04:58:26  
I agree roundup is probably the safest product to use. There are other products you could look into that incorporate roundup and some other herbicides that were used more frequently in the past. For instance, you can get a round up, pursuit mixture called extreme that has residual for small grasses and things like black nightshade but with the pursuit around your home it would not be as safe.

Ryan

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Bill(Wis)

07-05-2004 07:38:35




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 Re: OT: what is a better product than roundup? in reply to Bob, 07-05-2004 04:58:26  
Roundup is about as potent a grass and weed killer as anyone needs and it's safer than most. A lot of info on roundup available.



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Van(WA)

07-05-2004 07:22:04




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 Re: OT: what is a better product than roundup? in reply to Bob, 07-05-2004 04:58:26  
Bob, Roundup is hard to beat. I pay $62.50 for 2 1/2 gal jug, so price not bad. I use 1 oz to gal of water, for hand sprayer, does good job., but have to do several times a year, to keep it nice.



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(Another) Bob

07-05-2004 08:32:06




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 Re: Re: OT: what is a better product than roundup? in reply to Van(WA), 07-05-2004 07:22:04  
In my area, generic Roundup is about $15.00 a gallon. It's the real stuff, same strength as the brandname. Have you checked into that?



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Ron

07-05-2004 06:17:14




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 Re: OT: what is a better product than roundup? in reply to Bob, 07-05-2004 04:58:26  
I pick up my road with my box blade and lay it back down. Total cost is the cost of gas and I'm not putting poison in my well water.



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Ryan

07-05-2004 07:47:27




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 Re: Re: OT: what is a better product than roundup? in reply to Ron, 07-05-2004 06:17:14  
Roundup is neutralized once it hits the soil, so short of pouring it into your well it would be impossible to contaminate your drinking source because of its lack of residual.

Ryan



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Tim(nj)

07-05-2004 08:16:03




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 Re: Re: Re: OT: what is a better product than roun in reply to Ryan, 07-05-2004 07:47:27  
Not true. There are parts of southern New Jersey where glyphosate residue has been found in well water. Highly permeable sandy soil and high water tables allow it to get there after application.



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Ryan

07-06-2004 07:30:14




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: OT: what is a better product than in reply to Tim(nj), 07-05-2004 08:16:03  
Roundup requires a clay particle to neutralize and perhaps since it is sandy soil clay is not present and thus is leading to contamination.

Ryan



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8N126975

07-05-2004 06:05:10




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 Re: OT: what is a better product than roundup? in reply to Bob, 07-05-2004 04:58:26  
I use Remedy from DowElanco. It's not cheap, but a little goes a long way, and it usually lasts all season.



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TGIN

07-05-2004 05:58:01




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 Re: OT: what is a better product than roundup? in reply to Bob, 07-05-2004 04:58:26  
I use Buccaneer , You can mix it as strong as you want but it`s alot cheaper . A little under $80 for 2.5 gal. A qt. will mix 15 to 25 gal. depends on the strenth you want and the weeds your spraying .



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