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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

What gives

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Duane

07-01-2004 13:52:40




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I like to know what's going on.

My wife and I just bought a 30 foot fifth wheel and the dealer installed the hitch.
I have been reading all the past post about hitch location and knew the consciences was about 2 to 6 inches ahead of the axle. When I got the f350 crew cab back yesterday and hitch the camper to head for home, I notice the hitch is about 2 inches behind the axle.
I went into the archives to double check all the past posts and call the dealer to pitch a fit.
The dealer said, "it is a state law to mount the hitch behind the axle. They are going to send me a copy of the law.

Does anybody know anything about this Texas state law?????
I am a bit upset, my truck bucked every time I hit a bump.
What do you all think of this????

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ChuckG

07-02-2004 13:07:58




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 Re: What gives in reply to Duane, 07-01-2004 13:52:40  
I just spoke to Spillar Welding in Austin - they have done a "couple" of GN installs - they say "No further back than over the rear axle - forward is better but never aft on a 1 ton or smaller." There are some special situations on a 2-3 ton truck where you might want it aft of the axle but almost never. No state reg speaks to that - your installer has screwed up!



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Paul in Mich

07-02-2004 07:24:30




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 Re: What gives in reply to Duane, 07-01-2004 13:52:40  
Duane, If what the dealer told you were true, wouldn't semi's have the 5th wheel pivot point behind the rear axle? I think you'll find that they are positioned 2/3 to 3/4 tward the front drive axle on tandoms, and in front of the axle on single rear axles. I would first check with Texas D.O.T., and then if they can quote no law prohibiting the hitch from being directly over or slightly ahead of the axle, confront the dealer and ask him to show you such law, and if he can't, make a big scene right in front of customers, which usually gets their attention. The whole reason for having the fifth wheel over or ahead of the axle is so that the load does not take weight off the front wheels which in turn affects steering. Try going around a corner, or negotiating an on or off ramp with the front wheels barely biting the pavement, and see the crowd gather after you lose it. It just doesn't make logical sense, and worse it becomes a safety issue. Also, unless there were pre drilled mounting holes in the bed, I would make them replace the bed at their cost. As stated in previous threads, the dealer is CYA mode. That still doesn't make him right.

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Eldon (WA)

07-02-2004 20:53:34




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 Re: Re: What gives in reply to Paul in Mich, 07-02-2004 07:24:30  
I always thought the purpose of placing the pivot point between the front and rear axle was physics..... the trailer/truck combo is less likely to start whipping when going down the road. I doubt if placing the pivot point slightly behind the rear axle will be a critical point with the DOT as bumper pull trailers have the hitch pivot a LOT farther back and are legal. As for taking weight off the front axle, 1 or 2 inches isn't going to create any noticeable difference because the leverage factor is so small, especially compared to a bp trailer.

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Shane

07-02-2004 12:46:13




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 Re: Re: What gives in reply to Paul in Mich, 07-02-2004 07:24:30  
If in fact the installer did screw up the hitch location I would second the idea of them replacing the whole bed OR paying you for a new bed and just leaving the old one there if the holes aren't too big. I would seriously check the work under the bed on the frame too. If they did put the hitch in the wrong spot I wouldn't think it would fit on the frame too well and stuff there may be all screwed up too.

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KX

07-02-2004 06:42:40




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 Re: What gives in reply to Duane, 07-01-2004 13:52:40  
Texas here too....never heard such a stupid thing in my life. The installer scrweed up BIG TIME. A gooseneck or fifth wheel hitch is OK exactly over the axle, better in FRONT of the rear axle. Don't listen to his squirming, he knows he has screwed up. i don't know if I would trust them at this point to fix it, they could screw up your frame, truck etc. I would try to make them PAY to have it fixed else where. This is EXACTLY why I learned early in life to do things like this myself....if it gets screwed up, I can go to the mirror to see who is responsible for fixing it. Also, if you do it yourself, it has a lifetime warranty, you'll fix it if it breaks. I agree with you, go TALK FIRM and don't allow them to double talk or just try to brush you away.

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Nolan

07-02-2004 06:40:56




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 Re: What gives in reply to Duane, 07-01-2004 13:52:40  
Just read through the texas laws regarding vehicles and equipment. No mention of mounting the 5th wheel hitch thusly was found.



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Ron

07-02-2004 05:07:11




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 Re: What gives in reply to Duane, 07-01-2004 13:52:40  
You are correct, the hitch must be in front of the axle.

Your state's DOT should be able to give you a copy of the regulation on their letterhead. I'd take it to the installer and give him 48 hours to put a new bed on the truck (unless you have an adjustable 5th wheel hitch) and mount the hitch in the right spot. If they refuse, I'd file a complaint with the DOT and let my attorney make them bleed.

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John A.

07-01-2004 20:22:12




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 Re: What gives in reply to Duane, 07-01-2004 13:52:40  
Duane, I am here in Central Texas, Georgetown/Lampasas area. I never heard of any such law. I agree with the others, sounds like an installers screw-up. Where did you take it, in what city.
Later,
John A.



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Duane

07-01-2004 21:34:30




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 Re: Re: What gives in reply to John A., 07-01-2004 20:22:12  
I bought the camper and had the hitch installed at Camperland in Conroe, Texas. They seem to sell a lot of campers. They were writing up two orders as we were waiting for our hitch installation. Seems they should know about hitches. I am going to take a copy of these post up there tomorrow and check out the state law they talked about. Then I'm going to do some ferm talking.



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Shane

07-01-2004 22:08:40




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 Re: Re: Re: What gives in reply to Duane, 07-01-2004 21:34:30  
I should think a visit to the DOT would give an answer about the hitch placement. Beleive me, if you have something wrong they will find it and fine you. So they should know all the laws. Sounds fishy to me. Again, the whole purpose is to have the hitch infront of the axle. Now, since it is a 5th wheel and not a gooseneck is it possible that the hitch is on a rail and can be moved fore and aft?



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john in la

07-01-2004 19:23:26




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 Re: What gives in reply to Duane, 07-01-2004 13:52:40  
Never heard of any such law but any thing is possible but very very unlikely.
I THINK..... ..
That statement was a cover your rear remark. 5TH wheel placement is per weight on the tires. A 5th wheel should always be in front of the rear axle. By how much depends on your truck and wheel base. The whole purpose of having a 5th wheel is to transfer the weight to the front axel rather than making it lighter which happens when you place the hitch behind rear axle.
Take the rig to a truck stop and weigh it. This is where you could prove the placement is wrong.

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Jim in N M

07-01-2004 19:01:31




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 Re: What gives in reply to Duane, 07-01-2004 13:52:40  
This sounds like a bunch of "Bull-dodo" PLEASE let us know how this turns out !the best part is ,what about the hole in the wrong place in the bed!! Jim



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Mark - IN.

07-01-2004 18:45:04




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 Re: What gives in reply to Duane, 07-01-2004 13:52:40  
Well Duane, I don't know about Texas law, but I do believe that I wouldn't wait for him to send me a copy, I'd have him make me a copy as we stood at his copier. Cruise the truck down to your Highway Patrol and have them take a look. The rears take the bulk of the weight, and generally the fronts are leveraged down (hitch ahead of the rears). If you had a low tongue, then you have know choice to be behind the rears, but a 5th wheel? Guy got a copier? Go visit him, if he hasn't moved since you picked it up.

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David H.

07-01-2004 15:44:35




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 Re: What gives in reply to Duane, 07-01-2004 13:52:40  
I agree with Pete, sounds bogus to me as well. I've never heard of such a thing, go bounce the idea off of a rv'ers forum.



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Pete

07-01-2004 14:27:20




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 Re: What gives in reply to Duane, 07-01-2004 13:52:40  
I am not familiar with Texas law, but considering the number of hitches already in service that are mounted 2" ahead of the axle, it sounds bogus to me.
I think the dealer is trying to cover his hindquarters. My opinion. Pete



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txblu

07-02-2004 05:44:55




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 Re: Re: What gives in reply to Pete, 07-01-2004 14:27:20  
go to a www search engine and put in texas law. You'll get some options and one is the capitol something or other.

Listed therein are the laws of texas for your free viewing.

Mark



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