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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

8 volt battery

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SteveD

06-25-2004 13:51:06




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When I was a kid in the sixties my dad had an old jeep with 6 volt system that was hard to start in winter he bought a 8 volt battery and installed and did not change anything (lights,generator,gauges)started great for several years. Question is can you still buy one and would it not work good for older 6 volt tractors. Thanks




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john d

06-26-2004 19:41:39




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 Re: 8 volt battery in reply to SteveD, 06-25-2004 13:51:06  
Regardless of what kind of battery you use, if the connections aren't clean and tight, and the ignition system isn't in good shape, it won't start well.

Some folks want to keep old tractors on 6 volts because they came that way, and when they're kept in close-to-original condition, they WILL start.

Some folks like to crank 'em by hand. You can include me OUT on that one. BTDT.

Some folks, like me, have a tractor that's been overhauled with high compression and over-size sleeve/piston kits, and starting it on 6 volts is at the limit of what works well. With that in mind, I put an 8-volt battery in my M and SM about 20 years ago. Light bulbs don't last as long, but nothing else seems to have suffered!

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K-Mo

06-26-2004 07:01:40




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 Re: 8 volt battery in reply to SteveD, 06-25-2004 13:51:06  
Life is too short to complicate it with an 8V battery. With a properly configured and maintained electrical system, they should start just fine unless your starting in super low temps (0 deg.and below). I have a Super M with live hydraulics and it reliably starts at 5 or 10 degrees.
If you still want extra power, a 12V one wire alternator is the clean and simple way to go.
K-Mo



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I Like Case

06-25-2004 15:18:32




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 Re: 8 volt battery in reply to SteveD, 06-25-2004 13:51:06  
Step 1: Install 8V battery. Step 2: Take cover off of regulator and tweak it up a little bit. Step 3: Smile every time you hit the starter.



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Ron

06-25-2004 15:06:22




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 Re: 8 volt battery in reply to SteveD, 06-25-2004 13:51:06  
The thing I find fascinating is that when new these 6V tractors started just fine. Then as they age and 12V became available, lots of people jumped on the 12V bandwagon.

6V vs 12V is not and has never been the issue. The issue is that as 6V tractors age, cables/connectors, everything else ages. It's also true of 12V tractors, it's just that 6V tractors have had much longer to age. Expecting 40+ year old electrical equipment to work as well as the day it was made is just silly.

My solution is to rewire the entire tractor with high-quality 1/0 cable with soldered connections, shine up everything the cables connect to, make sure the charging system is working correctly, and make sure the battery is perfect. At a cost far less than a 12V conversion, you now have a 6V system that will work even better than it did when it was new as modern batteries are far superior to the ones made 40+ years ago.

Are 12V systems better than 6V? Of course they are. They have more margin for aging. And if lights are important, 12V lights are much brighter. But a properly functioning 6V system will start the tractor.

Regardless whether 6V or 12V, the engines state of tune is critical. Ignition components wear out too and need to be replaced. Trying to start an engine with a 40+ year old ignition system is an exercise in futility even with a perfect starting/charging system.

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Tim in NB

06-25-2004 17:25:01




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 Re: Re: 8 volt battery in reply to Ron, 06-25-2004 15:06:22  
I agree ron. I bought a massey colt that wasn't a very good starter. Before last winter I rebuilt the carb, replaced battery, adjusted & cleaned the points and cleaned every connection I could see. Used it to plow this winter and it never failed to start.



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buickanddeere

06-25-2004 21:24:08




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 Re: Re: Re: 8 volt battery in reply to Tim in NB, 06-25-2004 17:25:01  
I'm going to have to agree with Ron and Tim on this one.



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Jon H

06-25-2004 16:08:58




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 Re: Re: 8 volt battery in reply to Ron, 06-25-2004 15:06:22  
I will be the bad guy this time and add the negative comments about 6V electrics. The small engine tractors may have started well on 6V if the system was in perfect condition,,but the large high compression ones never did.
I am old enough to have run these tractors when they were new,and while they were marginally easy to start on 6V when cold or lightly loaded, they were a disaster when the tractor was accidently stalled while under a constant hard pull. The pathetic 6V starter/battery would be lucky to put one cylinder over compression before it gave up,meanwhile the red hot exhaust manifold was creaking and snapping,and the coolant was at a rumbling boil in the heat soaked head. I remember the anger and frustration of wondering if the head was going to survive this without cracking(very common on some models) After a 15 min cooldown,the engine would free up enough to start,but time was lost and the ever present worry about cracked heads and warped or cracked exhaust manifolds was always there. In the mid 50's when many times the exact same model was delivered from the factory with a 12V electrical system,and started easily under any conditions,and with little or no maintenence except checking battery water level, it made guys like me who earned our living with these machines hope to never be cursed with running one of the older 6V models again.

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buickanddeere

06-26-2004 06:26:15




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 Re: Re: Re: 8 volt battery in reply to Jon H, 06-25-2004 16:08:58  
Some operators carried a spark plug wrench and pulled every other plug fom the engine's firing order in emergencies. The reduced cranking load let them start right up when too cold or too hot.



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sid

06-26-2004 20:25:49




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 8 volt battery in reply to buickanddeere, 06-26-2004 06:26:15  
That is intresting however a question comes to mind. How did they get the spark plugs back in with the engine running?



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buickanddeere

06-26-2004 20:43:16




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 8 volt battery in reply to sid, 06-26-2004 20:25:49  
Men were men back then. Seriously after the engine was ran several minutes to warm it up/cool it down and charge the battery. It was stopped and the vacationing plug(s) replaced.



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Ron

06-25-2004 16:51:03




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 Re: Re: Re: 8 volt battery in reply to Jon H, 06-25-2004 16:08:58  
Re-starting any very hot engine is hard on everything. If the engine was getting so tight it was that hard to turn over, I syspect something else was wrong.

Just as an aside... I saw a tractor program on RFDTV a day or so ago and a young man hand cranked a 450 cu. in. diesel. Don't remember then name/model of the tractor but it reminded me how welcome the invention of electric starting was!



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Sid

06-25-2004 15:28:59




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 Re: Re: 8 volt battery in reply to Ron, 06-25-2004 15:06:22  
How much does it cost you to have a generator rebuilt? I went to 12 volt because it was twice as much to get my generator rebuilt than it did to convert to a 12 volt alternator my tractor started just fine with a crank, it was not hard starting that I switched over but the fact that the generator was not genning. My tractors are working tractors and I will not switch just for the sake of switching.

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Bill(Wis)

06-25-2004 14:28:36




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 Re: 8 volt battery in reply to SteveD, 06-25-2004 13:51:06  
You'll get a lot of negative remarks on that one from people who use this website, also a lot of long winded lectures on the theory of electricity. All I can tell you is that the real farm stores that I use stock a good supply of 8v batteries. As far as keeping it charged up, your 7+ volt generator and a tweaked regulator might be able to keep it charged up to around 7v. If your tractor uses a coil and distrbutor 7v will be better than 6. If you have a magneto with an impulse coupler it won't help much.

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buickanddeere

06-25-2004 21:32:49




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 Re: Re: 8 volt battery in reply to Bill(Wis), 06-25-2004 14:28:36  
Because boosting the system voltage from 6.9 to 9.2 to properly charge a 8 volt battery shortens the life of the lights. A set of points won't last quit as long either. The main starting advantage of the 8 volt battery in a tired 6 volt system.Is that even when the system voltage is dragged down a couple of volts when cranking on 8. Is that the ignition system is seeing "normal" 6 volt operation voltage and sparks strong.

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rustyfarmall

06-25-2004 14:41:37




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 Re: Re: 8 volt battery in reply to Bill(Wis), 06-25-2004 14:28:36  
No negative comments here, I think it is great idea. If you can find an 8 volt battery, go for it. I don't know why more people don't do this instead of thinking the only answer is 12 volt.



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