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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Very OT - 0W-30 oil

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Ron

06-08-2004 16:10:50




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For all you "heavier weight oil protects better than lighter weight oil" fans...

The latest "speed secret" is that Mobil is supplying Mobil 1 in 0W-30 weight to NASCAR race teams for use on the track.

It's on their website (FAQS) which also has an explanation of what "0W" means.




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txblu Rest of story

06-09-2004 12:13:38




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 Re: Very OT - 0W-30 oil in reply to Ron, 06-08-2004 16:10:50  
I just came from www.mobil1.com and read the ad for 0-30 and also Delvac Super 15w-40. The 0-30 happened to mention ..... ."where this viscosity is recommended" and the Delvac said" specially formulated for heavy duty diesel engine service".

Curiously enough, there were OEM engine mfgr's approvals of the Delvac super in 10w-30 and 15w-40. All HD diesel engine mfgr's recommended the 15w-40 for their engines, but several declined to recommend the 10w-30. There's a message there.

So while I'm pondering the question of surface tension and what relationship viscosity breakdown has to an engine, I realized that with 0 psig of oil pressure the oil will NEVER LEAVE THE PUMP. You have to have oil pressure to get the oil to circulate. So for worn engines whose tight bearing tolerances are no longer tight, you need viscosity retension to keep the oil thick enough to pump and thick HD oils do just that. Just proved it again last week on a '64 worn out MF 35 diesel as posted on this site.

my 2c.

Mark

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RAB

06-09-2004 14:44:40




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 Re: Re: Very OT - 0W-30 oil in reply to txblu Rest of story, 06-09-2004 12:13:38  
txblu - just apoint about your post. You do not necesarily need pressure to pump oil. If there is a big hole lots of oil may flow, but no pressure will be indicated. On the same level, no oil would flow, even at maximum pressure if a valve in the line was turned OFF. From all this we must conclude that pressure developed in the system only causes less oil to flow.
So, point made that pressure is not flow, we are left with the makers spec for that particular engine to achieve flow to all relevant parts. That is why they also supplied an oil spec. at the time of manufacture.
Just makes life difficult to compare new technology with the old in the original specs.
Regards, RAB

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txblu

06-10-2004 06:44:07




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 Re: Re: Re: Very OT - 0W-30 oil in reply to RAB, 06-09-2004 14:44:40  
I have to partially agree with you that pressure is not flow. Pressure is the force that moves mass. I thought about this for awhile, and I guess the reason why I like to see oil pressure is that I know that I have enough pressure to cause adequate flow to the parts requiring it (valve train for instance). If I am pumping enough oil to get pressure, the parts are getting lubed (barring a malfunction).

If I have no indicated pressure, I could have 20 gpm but I wouldn't know it.

But you still have to consider the case of Mobil 1 where some diesel engine mfgrs (Cummins, Mack, D.D. Caterpillar etc) would allow 10-30 in their engines but others wouldn't.

So, what is the mechanism that prohibits it's use. Is it the oil film strength? Or is it the fact that the more viscus the oil, (as you said) the more resistance to flow and hence the indication (to the operator) that the engine is being properly lubed.

I have Chev, Ford, and Dodge, trucks. All V8's with low mileage except the Ford. The oil pressure on the Chev is all over the place (as I have deliberately noticed in other Chevys). I use Delvac 15w-40 and Mobil 1 15w-50 to have at least 20 psig of oil pressure at idle on a trip in the summer.

The Dodge sits on 50 psig and doesn't move regardless of all the elements except engine off. The Ford (with at least 165k miles) sits just above mid-scale (whatever that is) and doesn't move either. Different people have their own opinions, but mine is that GM's engines are not as rugged as Ford and Mopar. I can't help but think oil pressure is a contributing factor.

I have been told that different engines use different type lubrication systems. Some use low pressure high flow, and others the opposite. Maybe the Chev is the former and the others the latter.

So the saga goes on and maybe all this hype is all for not. Maybe the real answer is keep the level up and clean oil and all of it will work.

Enjoyed the exchange.

Mark

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big fred

06-10-2004 07:42:59




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Very OT - 0W-30 oil in reply to txblu, 06-10-2004 06:44:07  
I can't speak to Chevy and Mopar, but most Fords (trucks and cars) made nowadays with oil pressure gages don't really indicate anything except that you have a minimum pressure. Instead of a sender, they have a pressure switch. The problem is that oil pressure senders have horrible reliability, and are more likely to fail than your oil pump. A switch is quite a bit more reliable, so that's what they use. That's why your Ford pressure seems to be rock steady. Put a mechanical gage in there and you will see the pressure fluctuate with speed and temperature like you would expect.

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txblu

06-09-2004 09:42:07




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 Re: Very OT - 0W-30 oil in reply to Ron, 06-08-2004 16:10:50  
So why is my oil gauge yellow at 20 and red at 5 psig?

course you are talking about synthetic and it doesn't play by the paraffin rules.



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Joe (Wa)

06-12-2004 09:20:52




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 Re: Re: Very OT - 0W-30 oil in reply to txblu, 06-09-2004 09:42:07  
It has the same color and marking because it's the same gauge face. Big fred is right, the gauge is an analog idiot indicator.

Look at the sender, it is easy to see the difference between a switch and a transducer.

Joe



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Jon H

06-08-2004 16:34:03




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 Re: Very OT - 0W-30 oil in reply to Ron, 06-08-2004 16:10:50  
I use Mobil 1 0w-30 in all my gas engine rigs,summer and winter. I used 10w-30 and 5w-30 for 20+ years with great results and loved the new 0w-30 for easy starts and almost instant oil pressure in our ND winters. We use it in several HD 1 ton trailer puller pickups that often run for hours on end at near full throttle,so I worried about using that thin oil in summer under those extreme loads. I called 1-800 ask mobil and asked for advice. They said that if 5w-30 and 10w-30 were doing OK,then 0w-30 should be fine. This has proven to be very true.Oil consumption and pressure are the same as with heavier synthetic oil,with no engine problems One of these old trucks has 250,000 miles on it.

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