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Dishonest seller

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Thomas Bednar

05-28-2004 15:56:22

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Late last fall I posted a warning on this site about a Kim Kimmel of Magnolia, Minnesota who I sent a check to for $1400 for a John Deere B. I never received the tractor nor my money back. The moderator of this site deleted my message.
Yesterday I received a letter from the Rock County Attorney where Kim resides.
He has been indicted on 5 felony counts of swindle,artifice,trick,device or other means.
Each count punishable by 5 years imprisonment, a fine of not more than $10,000, or both.
Perhaps the moderator is also guilty of bad judgement and has contributed to members on this site of being bilked by this scam artist.
I put this note here because I purchased a tractor from an individual in Southern Minnesota who told me everything worked just fine and after the tractor was delivered,found out 3 of 4 gauges did not work, nor the generator.
I want to post his name and state only the facts since he advertises on YT quite frequently.
Is it possible to send a preliminary note to the moderator stating only the facts of the case to see if he will let me post it?

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Don Livingston

11-10-2006 14:45:34

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Re: Dishonest seller in reply to Thomas Bednar, 05-28-2004 15:56:22

Just to update this old posting. Kim Kimmel / Hiltabrandt Diesel,has not change one bit to this day. He is still the same old guy as listed by others. It"s a shame.
Don L.

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Loren-MN

05-29-2004 21:57:54

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Re: Dishonest seller in reply to Thomas Bednar, 05-28-2004 15:56:22

But how do you post buying beware. I live 30 miles from the seller. I know who he is. I also know of another just 10 miles away that does the same thing. How do I provide information without mentioning names.

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tlak

05-29-2004 07:57:44

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Re: Dishonest seller in reply to Thomas Bednar, 05-28-2004 15:56:22

Several buyers will tell about a particular bad seller but his ads continue on. Seems if somebody wants to post about their bad experience seems only fair. Or maybe you need to buy an ad too.

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MarkB

05-29-2004 04:58:49

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Re: Dishonest seller in reply to Thomas Bednar, 05-28-2004 15:56:22

Thomas,

I'm sorry that you had a bad experience, but you're out of line to criticize Kim for pulling your post.

1. This is Kim's site, and she's free to do as she pleases.

2. Kim has no way to know if your complaint is legitimate or not. What if someone had unfairly criticized you on this board? Don't forget, in this litigious world, it's not out of line to think that someone might sue Kim over someone else's unsubtantiated post.

3. I think Kim tries to keep the tone of the site upbeat; I've noticed threads that were deleted when the posts started getting nasty.

If you feel so strongly about you and others needing to post your negative comments about people you do business with, I suggest you set up your own site for this purpose.

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Tom

05-29-2004 12:03:12

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Re: Re: Dishonest seller in reply to MarkB, 05-29-2004 04:58:49

Mark B

So this site, you say, is for the benefit of Kim. I must be mistaken as I thought it was for the benefit of old tractor enthusiasts. There are a nummber of ways anyone could check on the legitimacy of my complaint. The Rock County Attorney had much more information about this guy than I had.
I will not post any more messages here for the benefit of Kim. But I will post on the site which tries to represent views of tractor afficiandos including warnings of scam artists and liars, namely the Johnny Popper Forum. Any one wanting to know the name of the cuprit in Albert Lea,MN send me an email at tommybed@usfamily.net
Since he operates a business, he is subject to Minnesota laws and the Minnesota Attorney General is investigating my complaint.

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paul in Mich

05-29-2004 13:33:02

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Re: Re: Re: Dishonest seller in reply to Tom, 05-29-2004 12:03:12

Tom, Actually this site IS for the benefit of Kim. She provides a service to us tractor enthusiasts, and we use it to our advantage, but the site isn't here for Paul, Tom, or anyone else in particular. The problem I see in posting someones name if you feel you have been wronged is that until you are proven right in a court of law or that they have been proven wrong in a court of law, than anything you say here is merely an accusation. If you were right and someone who didnt agree with you and thought you had wronged them plastered your name all over the internet, would you feel just a little bit violated, and libled? I think so. Kim and Company, I'm sure are not going to be party to lible or slander, therfore unless the person you refer to is indeed convicted whereby it becomes a matter of public record, you are best served to hold these judgements to yourself. Nothing wrong with posing a question such as "Has anyone here had negative experiences dealing with so and so"?, But flat out accusations and calling someone a criminal before conviction is dangerous territory. I've seen people complain that a seller backed out on a guarantee of operating condition, when the words "where is as is" was printed plainly in the ad or auction hand bill.

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Tom

05-30-2004 09:59:40

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Dishonest seller in reply to paul in Mich, 05-29-2004 13:33:02

Paul
If I post a note, I'll follow your suggestion by asking a question instead of accusing someone.

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Loren-MN

05-28-2004 21:04:44

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Re: Dishonest seller in reply to Thomas Bednar, 05-28-2004 15:56:22

Southern Minnesota? I live here, and would place a bet that I can give you 2 names, and the seller you bought from is one of them.

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Alberta Mike

05-28-2004 20:07:34

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Re: Dishonest seller in reply to Thomas Bednar, 05-28-2004 15:56:22

Thomas, I sympathize with your situation but as someone else mentioned, I can't imagine buying something like that without laying eyes on it myself. Unfortunately, the charges that have been laid won't get you your money back, it has undoubtedly been spent or at least disappeared somewhere.

As far as hinting that some of the blame lies with the webmaster here, I'd have to say that you aren't being fair. She has no idea when someone posts something like that as to it's accuracy or validity, even though your facts might be 100% correct. Obviously, her only alternative is to get rid of the post. Obviously, the YT site cannot be a place where everyone that has been had (or thinks they have been had) posts the name of the party they have had the problem with, it just doesn't work. Good luck with your situation, I hope you end up with something, this is a bad scene for you and I don't blame you one second for being upset (or worse).

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Butcher

05-28-2004 19:17:00

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Re: Dishonest seller in reply to Thomas Bednar, 05-28-2004 15:56:22

I have got to ask, Did you actually look at the machine before you sent off you money? I guess I am just an old german who would NEVER buy anything sight unseen. If you really want a J.D.B you should drive out here to N.E. Iowa. you could buy 3 of them for $1400.

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Harley1983

05-28-2004 18:59:02

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Re: Dishonest seller in reply to Thomas Bednar, 05-28-2004 15:56:22

Have had the same problem eith with the moderator or something. I even emailed Kim personally, and for the last three months, there just seems to be no way to get a hauling ad on this site. I have made "voluntary donations" to the site and everything else, so it's not like I expect something for nothing, I just cannot get a hauling ad on the hauling schedule. Go figure. I guess I'll just keep cruising the forums and visiting with the guys. Harley

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mike

05-28-2004 16:23:07

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Re: Dishonest seller in reply to Thomas Bednar, 05-28-2004 15:56:22

Getting awful picky there, " three out of four
gauges didn't work or the generator" That's no big deal, you must be new to this tractor stuff.
That's normal on any old tractor,and very minor.
Did you check to see if it had Canadian air in
the tires?

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dirthog

05-28-2004 16:53:15

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Re: Re: Dishonest seller in reply to mike, 05-28-2004 16:23:07

Why shouldnt he be picky ? Old or not, if someone says everything works fine, then that should be the case. It would have been just as easy for the seller to state that the gauges didnt work or the generator was shot.

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mike

05-29-2004 10:52:10

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Re: Re: Re: Dishonest seller in reply to dirthog, 05-28-2004 16:53:15

The point is most people will lie about anything
if concerns money.I've bought and sold tractors
on a small scale for 40 years and probably 10
times a tractor I purchased was like the guy said.Everyone has different ideas of whats good
or bad,if they were honest it would be hard to
sell anything.The guys I run across in the south
seem to be the worst for getting the actual
condition,you get all kinds of surprises you didn't expect on there tractors.

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Pete

05-28-2004 16:57:26

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Re: Re: Re: Dishonest seller in reply to dirthog, 05-28-2004 16:53:15

I agree with Dirthog. Either it works or it doesn't. It's not difficult to tell the truth unless the seller intends to scam someone.

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Cosmo

05-28-2004 17:40:04

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Dishonest seller in reply to Pete, 05-28-2004 16:57:26

Amen, Pete and Dirthog. If someone lies about something so obvious, I certainly wouldn't trust him about anything major and hidden and not so easily checked. My three cents worth. (inflation, you know):)

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rustyfarmall

05-28-2004 16:01:12

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Re: Dishonest seller in reply to Thomas Bednar, 05-28-2004 15:56:22

It sounds to me like you have the proof, and your first posting should not have been deleted.

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gahorn

05-29-2004 09:59:12

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Re: Re: Dishonest seller in reply to rustyfarmall, 05-28-2004 16:01:12

I'm fairly new to this site, but I moderate a website discussion forum (aviation related) and I can see why the moderator may have deleted such a msg posting. This sort of site thrives by encouraging a group-participation with a helpful spirit and it's important to avoid any legal controversies. An equally valid viewpoint is the desire of a participant to give accurate help to others in the form of factual warnings of deceitful traders. The problem is when the msg gets personal. It's far better to warn of some cheat in a particular location with an area code of (123) and initials of KK. That way the msg is not libelous and still gets the point across. If you really feel strongly about it, you can always post your own personal information (contact info) and invite readers to contact your for more info.

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