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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Off road DIESEL fuel

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GG

05-14-2004 06:54:25




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Went to the local oil distributor today to buy my usual 10 gallons of off road diesel and was informed that I had to buy 50 gallons to get the better price. Ten gallon will usually last me 3 or 4 months. I live in N.W. Alabama. Anyone ever heard of this??




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kyhayman

05-15-2004 06:14:19




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 Re: Off road DIESEL fuel in reply to GG, 05-14-2004 06:54:25  
May have something to do with taxes, here you dont get a complete break on state fuel tax unless you get 50 gallons at a time.


Also volume matters, I'd a lot rather sell 1 person a thousand bales as have to sell a hundred people 10 bales each. I get more grief from folks who buy hay 10 bales at a time than I get from 50 serious customers.



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lamadon

05-15-2004 04:45:16




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 Re: Off road DIESEL fuel in reply to GG, 05-14-2004 06:54:25  
IM fixin to show my ignorance, so heating oil iz the same as off road diesel? well why didnt you tell me before, I can save money buying it over O R diesel. thanks guys allways lerning somthing.



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john in la

05-14-2004 18:13:14




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 Re: Off road DIESEL fuel in reply to GG, 05-14-2004 06:54:25  
Haven't you ever heard of wholesale only.

A distributor is a wholesaler that sells to stations that sell retail to you. You want to buy from the wholesaler you need to buy in quantity.

If your distributor has off road diesel he may have stations in your area he is selling to. Ask him and then buy from the retail station.



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GG

05-14-2004 19:42:41




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 Re: Re: Off road DIESEL fuel in reply to john in la, 05-14-2004 18:13:14  
We are not discussing "wholesale verses retail" I am talking about the added cost for "road" taxes.



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john in la

05-15-2004 03:35:35




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 Re: Re: Re: Off road DIESEL fuel in reply to GG, 05-14-2004 19:42:41  
So now I am really confused.
You said you have to buy 50 gallons to get the better price. And you now say the better price is really not paying the road tax.
So now I am thinking the wholesaler will sell you 10 gallons of clear diesel w/tax but will not sell you 10 gallons of red diesel w/o tax.
Sorry that does not make sence. Please explaine.



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GG

05-15-2004 06:17:47




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Off road DIESEL fuel in reply to john in la, 05-15-2004 03:35:35  
Right on! It don't make sense to me either, that's what I am referring to. I have not checked with another distributor but will do so a.s.a.p.



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john in la

05-15-2004 12:18:27




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Off road DIESEL fuel in reply to GG, 05-15-2004 06:17:47  
OK I SEE WHAT IS GOING ON NOW.

Their is a sign at a loading rack I load at. It says know your customer. If he sells you high sulpher dyed diesel and you use it for road use not only can you be fined he can also be fined for selling it to you. He thinks you are trying to buy no tax diesel to use in your pickup behind his and the governments back because of the rising fuel prices recently. Sorry to say it but he just does not trust you.

The fine is so much a gallon for the tax man + their is a $25,000 a day fine to the EPA for using high sulpher in a low sulpher application.

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GG

05-15-2004 14:14:32




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Off road DIESEL fuel in reply to john in la, 05-15-2004 12:18:27  
I agree-- but how would they know he sold it to you????



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john in la

05-15-2004 14:45:50




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Off road DIESEL fuel in reply to GG, 05-15-2004 14:14:32  
Hello Mr. GG
I am with the EPA. Meet my friend Joe that is with the IRS. We have been informed by the local DOT that they found red dyed high sulpher diesel in your pickup. Did you know the fine is $25,000 a day plus x amount for the tax. We feel you have had this in your truck for say 4 days so that will be $100,000+

(hay joe this guy does not look like he could afford 100,000+ so lets give him a break and go for the big fish. OK)

So Mr. GG tell you what. If you can produce a recite where you bought this fuel we will let you off with a slap on the wrist and say a $5000 fine.

So now you tell me how they are going to find out who sold it to you. They will not only get into his business’s deeper pockets for the fine they may uncover others he has sold to. Sorry to say it but one bad apple does spoil it for others.

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selig

05-15-2004 20:28:43




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Off road DIESEL fu in reply to john in la, 05-15-2004 14:45:50  
How is this any more likely to happen if one should buy ten gallon then if he bought one hundred gallons of off road diesel?



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john in la

05-16-2004 03:05:44




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Off road DIESE in reply to selig, 05-15-2004 20:28:43  
The break off is usually it must be delivered in bulk to a on site storage tank BUT.
Some one that gets 10 gallons in 5 gallon cans is more likly to put in truck with recent fuel price increases than some one that has a large container with a hand pump on it. I think if you tryed to buy 100 gallons in 5 gallon cans they still would not sell.
You need to make the cut off some where. How often do you buy 50 or 100 gallons at a time for your pickup.

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paul

05-14-2004 21:08:20




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 Re: Re: Re: Off road DIESEL fuel in reply to GG, 05-14-2004 19:42:41  
Hummm, sounds more like you are talking about bulk sales tho - at least that was how it reads.

In my state you can apply to the satae & get the taxes refunded, might want to look into that if it's just the tax issue. Tho he should be able to sell you any quantiy of dyed fuel, you won't likely get the bulk discount you used to for such small quantities!

--->Paul



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jdemaris

05-14-2004 14:21:16




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 Re: Off road DIESEL fuel in reply to GG, 05-14-2004 06:54:25  
Doesn't anybody use it for home-heating? Around here in Central New York State over half the homes use fuel oil for heat which is off-road diesel. Just paid $1.29 per gallon for 600 gallons. Sometimes, if I buy it under the heading of "farm diesel" instead of "heating oil" there is a price break, but not much. Same fuel, comes out of one tank. At the pump, the low-sulfur clear (non-dyed) diesel with highway tax is $1.90 per gallon. For many injection systems, the off-road fuel is better for the injection pump. In northern Michigan where my in-laws live they sell off-road diesel at the pump. I almost screwed up one time and put it in my diesel Suburban.

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dirthog

05-14-2004 16:17:52




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 Re: Re: Off road DIESEL fuel in reply to jdemaris, 05-14-2004 14:21:16  
Yeah, around here most people use fuel oil to heat their homes, I didnt realize that I could run the same fuel oil I burn in my furnace in my dozer, think I'll buy a little hand pump and save the trip to town. We also can get offroad diesel at the pump around here. (Montrose PA.)



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kyhayman

05-14-2004 14:58:33




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 Re: Re: Off road DIESEL fuel in reply to jdemaris, 05-14-2004 14:21:16  
Not here, less than 3% use fuel oil to heat. Mostly natural gas in urban areas or electric, outside of town it is mostly electric with about 15% propane.



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Will in Ohio

05-14-2004 12:47:40




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 Re: Off road DIESEL fuel in reply to GG, 05-14-2004 06:54:25  
Around here you can't pick up, they deliver, and its a 100 gal. min. for delivery, you only get a price break if you are under contract to buy a lot of fuel.



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jfky

05-14-2004 11:38:33




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 Re: Off road DIESEL fuel in reply to GG, 05-14-2004 06:54:25  
thats sad-traditionally its the small sales that combine to equal volume income



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Nebraska Cowman

05-14-2004 10:41:16




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 Re: Off road DIESEL fuel in reply to GG, 05-14-2004 06:54:25  
sounds reasonable. I get a break on kerosene if I buy 50 gal.



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Scott

05-14-2004 08:27:36




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 Re: Off road DIESEL fuel in reply to GG, 05-14-2004 06:54:25  
GG, Around here (middle Tennessee) they want you to get at least 300 gallons to deliver it but I have picked up small amounts before (30 gallons). I don't know about the terminal where you get yours at, but here I get the idea that they wouldn't want to fool with many 5-10 gallon transactions. There used to be some retailers here that had off road diesel at their pumps but since there aren't many farms of any size around here anymore I don't know of any that do that now. But, you might ask your wholesaler if any retailers in the area sale off road diesel.

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GG

05-14-2004 13:49:22




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 Re: Re: Off road DIESEL fuel in reply to Scott, 05-14-2004 08:27:36  
Why did the policy change? I have bought diesel for years in small amounts with no problem. Guess they don't wont to fool with the little guy. I'ts no big deal to me because I won't save that much money, I was just wondering if this was the policy nationwide.



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