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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

OPEC and gas price

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Will

04-01-2004 05:28:39




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I don't get it. Everything I sell the buyer tells me what he will pay for it. Corn, beans, milk, etc. We are the biggest buyer of oil and they tell us what we must pay. It is illegal in this country for two or more companies to set prices, yet OPEC can get together and hold us hostage for oil. We should immediatly start drilling in Alaska, look for more off shore oil (the threat alone would help), and start using our researves. Then tell OPEC what we will pay for oil. When their reserves start to build up they will meet out price or at least be willing to negotiate.

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Hermit

04-01-2004 18:35:41




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 Re: OPEC and gas price in reply to Will, 04-01-2004 05:28:39  
The problem is that Americans are too nice. We have helped numerous third world countries up to a second world status. That has increased a demand in their fuel requirements as their manufacturing capabilities and quality of life increased. Now America is competing with an increasing number of countries for the same oil supply. And if you have more bidders at an auction, all wanting the same item, the price goes up. It seems to me if we can use up everyone elses oil first then America will have the only oil left.

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cannonball

04-02-2004 05:43:43




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 Re: Re: OPEC and gas price in reply to Hermit, 04-01-2004 18:35:41  
do you people really think that the oil companies don't still have an intrest in the oil..most of their money comes from oversea's...have nice day may god bless



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Toocold

04-01-2004 18:00:52




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 Re: OPEC and gas price in reply to Will, 04-01-2004 05:28:39  
You might consider writing "W" who lives on Pennsylvania Avenue. Heard he knows a lot about oil.



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Hugh MacKay

04-01-2004 15:45:49




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 Re: OPEC and gas price in reply to Will, 04-01-2004 05:28:39  
Will: Guess again my friend, it is actually 4-5 corperate families across North America controling both ends. That law you mention has about as much teeth as a chicken. As for OPEC they just say how high when told to jump. The entire food industry pricing is controlled from 4 corperate board rooms. With Corperate structures such as they are today your competition laws are absolutely useless. Supply and demand is no more my friend, just artificial supply and demand.

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Larry NE IL

04-01-2004 20:07:07




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 Re: Re: OPEC and gas price in reply to Hugh MacKay, 04-01-2004 15:45:49  
Not quite so fast....the Brits have a BIG say in oil these days.
What I can't understand for the life of me is the fact that the congress has been FOOLING AROUND with an energy bill for years now. Mabey we should all take a night off this discussion board and write our rep's...AGAIN!, to get off their duffs and either lead, follow or get the hell out of the way!! Larry Coltrin



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Hugh MacKay

04-02-2004 02:18:49




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 Re: Re: Re: OPEC and gas price in reply to Larry NE IL, 04-01-2004 20:07:07  
Larry: It matters no whether it be United States, Canada or Western Europe, the same corperate interests are running the show, and when thet say jump guys like George Bush, Paul Martin, John Major, etc say how high. My friend, across the free world today politicians are elected by the people and govern for the filthy rich only.



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Bob

04-02-2004 15:55:06




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: OPEC and gas price in reply to Hugh MacKay, 04-02-2004 02:18:49  
Quite a coincidence. I am watching the news on CBS while I'm reading this. They just said the same thing you did.



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Mark

04-01-2004 13:51:20




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 Re: OPEC and gas price in reply to Will, 04-01-2004 05:28:39  
If you watch the petroleum company stocks and earnings,you will see where our oil shortage is. Profits up 25-30%,3 of the oil companies are in the Fortune top 10. The oil they are gouging you for today was bought 90-120 days ago when it was under $30 bbl.All they are doing is profit taking on the so called shortage.



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Jay

04-01-2004 14:07:11




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 Re: Re: OPEC and gas price in reply to Mark, 04-01-2004 13:51:20  
That may be true, but they didn't stop buying oil then - they will have some $35 stuff later too. When the price drops back to $25, you won't expect them to be able to charge for the $35 stuff. You can't have it both ways.

I call it good marketing. As a stockholder, I'm pretty happy that the oil companies like to make a profit. Competition keeps them from making too much.



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RD

04-01-2004 18:16:56




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 Re: Re: Re: OPEC and gas price in reply to Jay, 04-01-2004 14:07:11  
Jay your last name must be Rockafeller, seems you have a good excuse for everything.



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gspig

04-01-2004 12:44:55




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 Re: OPEC and gas price in reply to Will, 04-01-2004 05:28:39  
I fail to believe that OIL supply is the problem with gas prices. Refinery capacity is the problem. The oil companies aren't putting money into refineries, and why should they. Refineries are expensive and the increased capacity will reduce the price of gas. Shut down some refineries during peak fuel usage and now you have a gas shortage. At the same time you can now raise prices because the supply/demand gap has increased.

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big fred

04-01-2004 13:29:05




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 Re: Re: OPEC and gas price in reply to gspig, 04-01-2004 12:44:55  
Can you imagine the hoops you gotta jump thru to get a permit to build a refinery? I would imagine it's dang near as tough as building a nuclear power plant.



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Farmaller

04-01-2004 11:53:02




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 Re: OPEC and gas price in reply to Will, 04-01-2004 05:28:39  
No matter what you say, we are getting screwed again by corporate politicians. Our gov. so-called elected officials are corporate-owned. Fuel prices have gone up 18% since Bush was elected. We went to Irag which has more oil than Saudi-Arabia. So where is it? Mark my word Bush and his corporate sponsors will be selling us Irag oil in about five years down the road. Why else would someone spend $150,000,000 to get a $400,000. JOB?

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Jay

04-01-2004 12:09:33




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 Re: Re: OPEC and gas price in reply to Farmaller, 04-01-2004 11:53:02  
A: Iraq does not have more oil than Saudi.

B: Inflation adjusted, we are paying some of the lowest prices for gasoline ever.

C: Go to www.api.org consumer site for why gas prices are up and other info.

D: For historical prices, click my link. It's a .pdf file, so you must have Adobe Reader.

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Rod (NH)

04-01-2004 17:45:01




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 Re: Re: Re: OPEC and gas price in reply to Jay, 04-01-2004 12:09:33  
Do you really think the political conspiracy theorists will believe any actual facts that tend to contradict their view? Anyway, thanks for the excellent link to that information. It's always good to have some facts in hand. I suspect the doubters will mistrust the source. If they do then they should provide equally compelling facts to the contrary. I'd be interested but won't hold my breath :o).

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buickanddeere

04-01-2004 10:27:00




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 Re: OPEC and gas price in reply to Will, 04-01-2004 05:28:39  
If worse come to worse North America has huge reserves of coal. Gemary did pretty good during WWII on synthetic fuel, so has South Africa. Nuclear power can provide clean cheap Hydrogen and provide an assist in reformulation to make alcohol, sythetic diesel etc. Alberta has more oil than the middle east but the stuff is stuck tight in the oilsands.



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Roger

04-01-2004 10:07:29




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 Re: OPEC and gas price in reply to Will, 04-01-2004 05:28:39  
OPEC's legal/administrative structure is almost an identical copy of the Texas Railroad Commission which controls crude oil production out of Texas. What goes around- comes around. They copied us.

Oil was not expected to be big business in Texas when it was first discovered. The railroad commission got the job of regulating oil production by default. After the large fields were discovered in west Texas, the railroad commission set production quotas to keep individual producers from saturating the market and driving down oil prices. Exactly what OPEC is doing now.

Each Texas oil well had a quota set as a percent of its maximum capacity. Texas production quotas have been at "100 percent allowable" since 1971 which means we were consuming so much oil by that time that Texas could no longer flood the market. The U.S. imported 35% of our oil consumption in 1971 and now imports 55% of our demand. It's projected to reach 70% in another 15 years. Lets enjoy working our old tractors while we still can.

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Errin OH

04-01-2004 09:09:36




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 Re: OPEC and gas price in reply to Will, 04-01-2004 05:28:39  
Well I been out of the oil field for about ten years now, but can shed some light on the dilemma. Producing oil here isn't the problem. There are many co's that would love to see a boom here again. For this to happen 2 things need to happen. 1st oil needs to be around the $45 mark. This may sound high compared to the 30 stuff but with all the regs, restrictions, OSHA, and such the price of labor to drill here is a ton more than there. So what happens is the OPEC people, who don't have these issues & pay peasant salaries, under cut US, as well as others, production with simple supply / demand strong arming. The run it up to a point where US producers can begin to produce, and then flood the market, drive down the price to the point where the US guys can't compete. They make so much off a barrel it doesn't matter if it's $30 or 50. They are still getting rich. After a few cycles of this the US produces simply say "screw it" and wait. I think we have actually drilled and caped more holes now than we are pumping. The 2nd and most important thing that needs to happen is the market/US needs to tell them to #v(&OFF. Stop buyin period and let France deal with them. Not that anyone is watchin but I think this has been happening for some time now. Just to stinkin slow for my taste. Can't sight exact numbers but where down to something like 30% from them. Which leaves 70% from elsewhere. The elsewhere is the problem at this point. Russia as a supplier has just had some wild things going on and the dependency thing is just crazy. Seems old Puke-tan decided to knock off the top two oil co's leaders. Not real sure we'll be dealin with him, the co's or what. Venaswalla the other big provider has a nut (fido fan) in charge now that seems h#ll bent on knocking of democracy in his country in favor of bein a commie. One day he's willin to deal the next he's not.

So what it comes down to is - Buyers have to have stable "supplies". 2 out of 3 are not. So the infulance of the third is a major deal on futures.

What we should do, short of invading Russia and South America, is have a 45-50$ a barrel price with 90% from the good old US of A. Then drop this hybrid/electric crap that is only going to force us to drive golf cart sized vech's at 35 miles an hour, and invest into Bio-fuels (the only truely renewable alternate), and then work the next 10-15 years on leavin oil behind.

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big fred

04-01-2004 12:00:07




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 Re: Re: OPEC and gas price in reply to Errin OH, 04-01-2004 09:09:36  
The military is developing hybrid-electric vehicles that are much larger than a golf cart, around 19 tons, with a top speed of 90kph. Don't go selling hybrids short yet.



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cb

04-02-2004 06:34:48




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 Re: Re: Re: OPEC and gas price in reply to big fred, 04-01-2004 12:00:07  
yeah, and it cost 10 bilzzilon dollar like their 2,000 hammers....



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Better than that...

04-01-2004 08:57:51




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 Re: OPEC and gas price in reply to Will, 04-01-2004 05:28:39  
Just tell them you will sell it for this or we will take it for free, oh and by the way shut up and like it mr. foreign guy.



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Alberta Mike

04-01-2004 12:57:36




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 Re: Re: OPEC and gas price in reply to Better than that..., 04-01-2004 08:57:51  
Just when a guy starts to think that the posts here on the forum make sense, someone like you pops up and says something that makes us (on this side of the ocean) appear to be a brick or two short of a full load. It's probably time to come out of our caves and realize what's happening in the world and that you just can't "take" whatever you want or think you need (although some are still trying). Grow up there buddy, you've got a lot to learn.

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RAB

04-01-2004 08:48:09




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 Re: OPEC and gas price in reply to Will, 04-01-2004 05:28:39  
I think your case is flawed. OPEC only set the limit on production. End of story. If you want some of that oil, more than someone else YOU OFFER more for it. Price goes up. Simple supply and demand. Like any commodity, if you can store it, you can pick your time to sell. Pretty fair system that a lot of farmers use to good effect.
You can do what you like but don't accuse OPEC of hostage taking. The west should be using much less oil and should not expect to buy it cheap from anyone. Just my 02p worth - and in the UK it's a lot dearer to buy fuel than in your neck of the woods.
Regards, RAB

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Hayman

04-01-2004 08:22:03




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 Re: OPEC and gas price in reply to Will, 04-01-2004 05:28:39  
Not enough oil makes for high prices.OPEC's taps are wide open already.



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Mike

04-01-2004 05:57:23




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 Re: OPEC and gas price in reply to Will, 04-01-2004 05:28:39  
I can't speak for what' going on in Alaska too much but companies are in production in the Gulf of Mexico. I work for an engineering company and we're working on our fourth production platform for the gulf in the past two years. Also been hearing rumors of a lot of work coming up in Alaska but nothing solid so far so.
We're working on it.



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steveormary

04-01-2004 10:21:19




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 Re: Re: OPEC and gas price in reply to Mike, 04-01-2004 05:57:23  
I think it is mostly political. W will bring the fuel price down just before election and of course take credit for cheaper gas. Then he will get re-elected and prices will go up again. Has to pay for war somehow.

steve



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Jester

04-01-2004 16:16:29




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 Re: Re: Re: OPEC and gas price in reply to steveormary, 04-01-2004 10:21:19  
I take it that Mary is the one with the brains?



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steveormary

04-01-2004 16:48:41




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: OPEC and gas price in reply to Jester, 04-01-2004 16:16:29  
Jester;

Mary has more going for her then just brains. Like cooking,baking and keeping a clean house. And she is a pretty lady. Dont know why she has stuck with me for 36 years.

steveormary



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Male Gayle

04-01-2004 11:39:15




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 Re: Re: Re: OPEC and gas price in reply to steveormary, 04-01-2004 10:21:19  
W doesn't set price, pumping goals, or anything else regarding oil. Venezuela is the big problem with Chavez making like Castro. Venezuela is virtually shut down as far a source of oil for the U.S. Supply goes down, prices go up. Also thanks to all the green weenies out there, the U.S. has half the refining capacity it used to have in the 70's.



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