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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

synthetic lubes

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showcrop

03-30-2004 17:46:56




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does anyone know any problems with using synthetic lubricants in their antiques?




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big fred

04-05-2004 08:49:25




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 Re: synthetic lubes in reply to showcrop, 03-30-2004 17:46:56  
They're more expensive.



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JDknut

03-31-2004 04:12:48




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 Re: synthetic lubes in reply to showcrop, 03-30-2004 17:46:56  
My experience with synthetics in older equipment is that it is harder to keep it in the equipment. It uses more oil and it is more apt to leak out of seals, etc. I would use it in cold weather conditions where you may want a cold start as it gives less friction and makes the engine turn over easier. My $0.02.



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RAB

03-30-2004 22:24:46




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 Re: synthetic lubes in reply to showcrop, 03-30-2004 17:46:56  
I have found that oil consumption on my high speed auto engines decreases. I actually recycle some of my used synthetic to my old tractors - it' s cleaner and better and certainly good enough.
What I find with my kero burners is that the oil is needing change for three reasons - poor filtration systems, dilution (with a lot of light running and cold starts) and contamination with combustion products.
Cheap, cheap oils are no good at all - they suffer from all sorts of things, mainly loss of viscosity as soon a a little dilution or whatever.
I need good lube at pretty low revs, so as long as oil is clean and good pressure, I (and my tractors) am happy as I am confident that these good modern oils are far superior to the original specs.
So main problem is excessive cost for no return in my case
Regards, RAB

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Stan(PA)

03-31-2004 06:10:47




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 Re: Re: synthetic lubes in reply to RAB, 03-30-2004 22:24:46  
Can you switch to synthetic directly at next oil change? Are there any compatibility concerns?



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Jon H -Mobil 1 site

03-31-2004 07:05:33




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 Re: Re: Re: synthetic lubes in reply to Stan(PA), 03-31-2004 06:10:47  
Here is a link to Mobil 1's "myths about synthetic oil" page. It clears up a lot of bunk about synthetic oils. I have used Mobil 1 oil in my equipment since the mid 70's and have had nothing but good results. I have run it in new engines with 500 miles and put it in machines with over 150,000 miles on them with mineral oil,them changed to mobil 1 Synthetic. These old engines have not shown any new oil leaks and oil consumption usually goes to about 1/2 what it was with mineral oil. We have done a once per year oil/filter change at usually 10-12,000 miles.Have done this for 25 years on one machine. My two highest mile Mobil 1 engines have 250,000 and 340,000 miles with no problems. I had to replace a valve cover on one engine,and it was very clean inside. The 340,000 mile engine still makes over 5000 miles per quart of 0-30 mobil 1. This light oil is a great advantage for easy starts and fast lube at cold start in our North Dakota winter climate,yet this same oil works well in heavy trailer pulling pickups in up to 100 degree heat in summer,oil consumption and pressure are the same as heavier weight oil.

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Stan(PA)

03-31-2004 08:26:16




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: synthetic lubes in reply to Jon H -Mobil 1 site, 03-31-2004 07:05:33  
Thanks Jon! This certainly clears up a lot of the misinformation I had....Stan



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Jon H

03-31-2004 07:10:18




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: synthetic lubes in reply to Jon H -Mobil 1 site, 03-31-2004 07:05:33  
On the mobil 1 site,click on Why synthetics? them on myths about synthetics.



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ed

03-30-2004 20:24:14




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 Re: synthetic lubes in reply to showcrop, 03-30-2004 17:46:56  
Best thing next to sliced bread use amsoil in everything from my dump trucks to my antique tractors



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J on H_Mobil1 Amsoil test

03-31-2004 15:22:48




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 Re: Re: synthetic lubes in reply to ed, 03-30-2004 20:24:14  
An independent,real world test of Mobil 1 and Amsoil. Interesting that the Mobil 1 was not worn out untill 18,000 miles. When I started using Mobil 1 oil in the mid 70's I had it analysed at 3-6-9 K and changed usually around 10-12,000 miles. It looks like I am still well within the safe zone. I intend to follow this test to the end to see how Amsoil does. Early results look good.

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Eric

04-01-2004 10:10:56




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 Re: Re: Re: synthetic lubes in reply to J on H_Mobil1 Amsoil test, 03-31-2004 15:22:48  
I have a 2003 dodge cummins with Amsoil in it and also have a bi-pass fliter system with 26000 miles. Analysis said no action at this time. Sample taken at 19000 miles. I hade a 94' dodge with 150,000 miles with on oil change with analysis done at 10,000 mile intervals. This oil is awesome. CHECK IT OUT. WWW.1GR8OIL.COM



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buickanddeere

03-30-2004 19:52:00




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 Re: synthetic lubes in reply to showcrop, 03-30-2004 17:46:56  
Isn't going to hurt but synthetics are really only needed for extreme heat, extreme cold or extreme pressure.



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Jon H

03-30-2004 22:44:23




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 Re: Re: synthetic lubes in reply to buickanddeere, 03-30-2004 19:52:00  
One thing to consider with antique equipment is that a badly worn and irreplacible part that is near the end of it's usefull life,will often function like a good part and will last a lot longer if lubed with synthetic oil or grease. I had that experience with a 40's engine with a flat crank. the mains journals were badly worn,and I was unable to locate any undersize bearings so I could regrind the crank. I finally located a set of NOS std size main bearings which were installed and stopped the rumble in the crankcase for a few weeks. Due to the bad crank journals,the new bearings started to fail and the rumble started to return. On the chance it might help,I replaced the mineral oil with 20-50 Mobil 1 synthetic oil,This stopped the noise and allowed me to run the engine as a daily driver for 3 more years with no apparent wear of the main bearings inspite of the bad crank. I finally retired the rig to only ocasional use with synthetic Mobil 1 still in the engine. I guess this would fit under the heading of an extreme pressure application. My experience with Mobil 1 oil in engines with some cylinder and ring wear is that oil consumption is only half of what it was with mineral oil. Mobil 1 synthetic gear oil really helps with weak or worn driveline parts. I had a White 8800 combine that had a poorly designed gear box on the cylinder drive,the box would need shim plates and bearings every year. after filling it with synthetic gear lube it would last 4 years between rebuilds. The Shelbourne Reynolds stripper header for my combine states in the operators manual that only synthetic gear oil be used in the gear boxes,with Mobil 1 brand being recommended. I have noticed much less wear and torque lock of the driveline slip joints in my Steiger 4WD tractors since switching to Mobil 1 synthetic grease. The synthetic oils and grease are 4X the price of mineral grease/oil,but have proven to be well worth the cost with the great reduction in wear I have seen in the 20 years I have used it.

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RusselAZ

03-30-2004 18:42:20




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 Re: synthetic lubes in reply to showcrop, 03-30-2004 17:46:56  
It's the best thing you can do to make them happy.



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Jed

03-31-2004 05:50:49




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 Re: Re: synthetic lubes in reply to RusselAZ, 03-30-2004 18:42:20  
I have been involved with oil testing and production for years. As a matter of fact I am a certified lubrication specialist. I have heard a lot of good comments here, but I contend that synthetics are definitely the way to go. The country is supplied by a bunch of little oil production jobbers, who mix the components together in their plants. You get bare minimum additive additions. Just like gasoline if you buy an 87 , that is what it is. Oils are bought on the spot market, they meet a class requirement, which is defined by their physical testing ranges. The actual oil makeup, such as paraffin, olefin and aromatic content varies quite a bit, depending on where the oil came from. With the synthetic you don't need an Amsol, etc. All that is, is an additive pack anyway, so you are just putting in extra additive and you pay for it, just like you do for a synthetic. You get what you pay for, so why are we hot on a attacking the word "synthetic". It is derived from petroleum, but molecularly rearranged. That is what it is. Are we simply venting?

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Ray,IN

03-30-2004 19:04:43




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 Re: Re: synthetic lubes in reply to RusselAZ, 03-30-2004 18:42:20  
Prior to spending the money for synthetics, read this well researched thread. The author spent considerable time and effort to document what he writes:



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Ludwig

03-31-2004 04:40:38




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 Re: Re: Re: synthetic lubes in reply to Ray,IN, 03-30-2004 19:04:43  
2 lines in there "off the shelf" and "except Mobil 1"
So you generally can't buy Amsoil of the shelf and also a full synthetic like Mobil 1. Realistically any discussion of synthetics should be limited to those 2.
Mobil 1 at one point had a lawsuit about the other so called synthetics. I think its a crime they can market themselves like that...



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I Like Case

03-31-2004 03:07:31




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 Re: Re: Re: synthetic lubes in reply to Ray,IN, 03-30-2004 19:04:43  
Thanks for the link Ray. I guess I only thought that I was pretty educated on synthetic oils. I guess that it is just by dumb luck that I chose Mobil 1. That said I have been using Mobil 1 in almost everything I own for the last 10+ years and I love it.



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Greengo

03-30-2004 20:56:35




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 Re: Re: Re: synthetic lubes in reply to Ray,IN, 03-30-2004 19:04:43  
Well said!!!



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BobMo

03-30-2004 20:06:41




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 Re: Re: Re: synthetic lubes in reply to Ray,IN, 03-30-2004 19:04:43  
What the gentleman states is correct. While working for an engineering construction company for nearly 30 years I have been involved in the building of many syn-crude plants. The crude used in these facilities originates from the same field or oil sands that the rest of it does. Good luck....



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