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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

How Long Will A Tractor Last????

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ken theobald

03-22-2004 08:50:17




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I was thinking the other day about the old tractors that are still in regular use today like 50 and 60 year old IHC M's and John Deere's as well as other makes.Here in Ky. 8N Ford's are still popular and a nice one will cost about 4 times what they were new.I wonder if any of the current tractors will be running 50 years from now due to the complexity of the electonics?Will parts still be available?Will anyone be around that can work on them?

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Thomas

03-23-2004 13:14:54




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 Re: How Long Will A Tractor Last???? in reply to ken theobald, 03-22-2004 08:50:17  
It depends on what you use it for. A modern tractor is designed for 5000 hours heavy cultivation. This of course is the minimum requirement, many will last far longer if looked after. I agree that electronics will probably become the biggest killer. Here in the UK there's a market for 'simplifying' older tractors - ie cutting off cabs, converting multipower to manual etc - and exporting to the third world. I wonder how long that will continue to be viable as electronic engine, gearbox etc control become the norm. With ever stricter emmisions legislation how long is it before all machines have to have an annual smoke test like the car MOT? In Switzerland they are now forcing all construction vehicles to have a £3000 catalytic converter retro fitted before they can operate in a town. How long before tractors get the same treatment?

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Dave in GA

03-23-2004 05:02:52




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 Re: How Long Will A Tractor Last???? in reply to ken theobald, 03-22-2004 08:50:17  
Personally, I try to avoid electronic components whenever possible, from cars to tractors to tools to music. When they work, great. But even good electronics don't last long, and the costly nightmares begin. My tractors were all built in the 1930s with the most complex part being the mag. These machines will probably be operable in another 200 years.

I agree that newer cars and trucks have become junk in many ways. My wife's last two vehicles were a 1983 Cadillac and a 1990 Suburban. After 10-11 years, their headliners were sagging badly. Meanwhile, I'm driving an unrestored 1963 Buick to work every day, and its 41-year-old headliner is still exactly how it was leaving the factory. I see cars driving by every day with sagging headliners. It's ridiculous. My Buick's Dynaflow transmission has worked 41 years without a rebuild, and it is approaching 200k miles. In comparison, when we sold the Cadillac, it was only about 16 years old, and was on its 3rd engine and 3rd transmission, and the odometer read about 160k. Both the Cadillac and Suburban have gone through window motors too. After having to replace a bunch of them, I don't mind at all having to crank the windows on my '63. My wife and I refer to vehicles made since 1980 as "disposables," because they are, especially the small ones.

Back to tractors, I can see many of the newer, electronic-equipped tractors in operation in 50-100 years. Since the electronic components will no longer be available, operators will be forced to modify (actually simplify) them as much as possible, getting them to run without computers and sensors. Case in point, even though it's about a truck. A local guy had a 1965 Chevy pickup that needed an engine. He took one from an '83 Cadillac, a 4.1 with the factory chrome valve covers. He thought it looked cool. He pulled off all the sensors and computers, installed a carb to replace the throttle body, and ended up with a fine running truck.

Musically, I play the upright bass with bluegrass music. People ask me why I like to play bluegrass. I tell them that it's because bluegrass is played 100% acoustically with no speakers, no amps, no microphones, no pickups, and no need for even electricity. The music is fun because it's simple and worry-free, just the way tractors and cars should be.

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Pumpkin Head

03-22-2004 16:04:36




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 Re: How Long Will A Tractor Last???? in reply to ken theobald, 03-22-2004 08:50:17  
I'll stick with the older iron. No way I would own something that is reliant on electronics for it's basic functions. Of course the exception would be if I was a big time farmer, then I guess I would buy what I needed and I wouldnt be worried about 50 years down the road. Pumpkinhead (MF65) turns forty this year, forty years of workin hard, it's amazing. Were gonna have a little birthday party for her, cake and all.

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G-MAN

03-22-2004 13:47:31




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 Re: How Long Will A Tractor Last???? in reply to ken theobald, 03-22-2004 08:50:17  
I think this needs to be put in proper perspective. I doubt that 50 years ago any of the farmers of the time thought that someone would be interested in their new tractor 50 years down the road. Those "toys" we now play with were the "big" tractors on the farm in those days, in most cases. Who's going to want to haul around a dualled-up, weighted up 30,000 lb. Deere 8520, C-IH MW or whatever to shows 50 years from now? Probably not much of anybody. However, a lot of these comments about electronics are pretty far off base. There are certainly MORE electronics on modern tractors, but they're no less reliable than the electronics used on tractors 20 years ago. I can't count how many 50-series Deere tractors I've been around that don't have any electronic problems, even though they have many electronic components on them. Or look at how many 30-series Deeres are still running (4430, etc) and they are a lot more complicated electrically than a 4010. The plain and simple fact of the matter is that the electronics on the new tractors are better than ever before. Failure rates are low, they are generally well-protected from sunlight and the elements, and give excellent service. What with the size and power of the newer machines, they will do the same amount of work in 5 years that a 50-year-old tractor would do in 25 years. There's really no reason to expect them to last 50 years, is there? But I'm willing to bet that SOME of them will still be running 20, 30 and even 40 years from now. Don't forget that there is a HECK of a bunch of "simple" old tractors than ended up in scrapyards for seemingly "minor" problems. None of the new tractors are being built in numbers anywhere near what most of the older tractors were built in, so with a similar attrition rate, there will naturally be far fewer of them around in 50 years.

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Brokenwrench

03-22-2004 13:04:39




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 Re: How Long Will A Tractor Last???? in reply to ken theobald, 03-22-2004 08:50:17  
One of the most frequent questions on these boards concerns electrical problems on 50 year old tractors. Either they won't charge,won't crank,or won't start.These are on a tractor with the simplest of electrical systems,starter,generator,regulator,battery and lights.Multiply these problems 100 fold with the advent of computers,potentiometers,microswitches,multiple circuit boards,relays,20 pole pin connections and 14 miles of wiring,and current measured in fractions of a volt or amps.The new tractors themselves may be around as museum relics,but I seriously doubt if many will be running. The late 80's early 90's tractors are already starting to suffer from numerous electrical malfunctions. Inoperative lights and guages,shifting problems,3pts that raise and won't lower,or vice versa are all too common problems now on high hour tractors.Most common problem is corrosion and dirt in the supposedly sealed connectors. The repair is to replace harnesses and components damaged by corrosion or dirt,or voltage spikes. The average equipment owner doesn't want to hear that the repairs needed to make their 3pt lift is going to cost $8500 because "when you were welding on the drawbar the residual voltage backfed into the 3pt hitch module,shorting it out, and then you tried to run a jumper wire to make the hitch work that shorted out the main computer,and we have to take the cab off to get to it"

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Jonathan

03-22-2004 12:30:10




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 Re: How Long Will A Tractor Last???? in reply to ken theobald, 03-22-2004 08:50:17  
I think the smaller tractors made today will still be around in 50yrs because they have very little electronic gadgetry of what the bigger ones do. I think the complex electronics of the bigger ones is going to be their downfall. I'm willing to bet alot of those electronic parts used on tractors today will become obsolete and no longer carried by the manufacturer because there will just plain be too many of those parts for them to keep up with and if those parts are expensive today, just think what they'd cost 50yrs down the road when they are no longer popular and cost them something to stock. Something else to think about is those tractors need a computer with the correct software to tell the mechanic whats wrong, and how availible will that software be later on?. It's too bad, but maybe the puckerbrush will be replenished with tractors some day, and like somebody else has said, it would be a shame to have to junk a whole tractor just because of some little electronic failure. Although the aftermarketers may take care of where the manufacturers leave off like they are doing today with the antique stuff, but of course unless theres a good demand, that will never happen. The aftermarket world is struggling to keep up with the electronic stuff, like I recently read in a mustang magazine that it's hard for aftermarket to keep up with the ever changing electronics on engines, because theres usually some changes with each model year.
So I dunno, only time will tell I guess.

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Ben in KY

03-23-2004 01:20:25




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 Re: Re: How Long Will A Tractor Last???? in reply to Jonathan, 03-22-2004 12:30:10  
The little hydro compact tractors now have electronically controlled transmissions and such.....



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Mike (WA)

03-22-2004 12:13:29




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 Re: How Long Will A Tractor Last???? in reply to ken theobald, 03-22-2004 08:50:17  
Case in point- I had a pretty good '81 Cad Eldorado, and needed a new computer- trouble was, it had the "8-6-4" feature- ran on 4, 6 or 8 cylinders, depending on power need- all contolled by computer. That feature only lasted one year, and there apparently wasn't another new computer in the world- so I ended up parting it out.



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Ben in KY

03-22-2004 11:40:28




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 Re: How Long Will A Tractor Last???? in reply to ken theobald, 03-22-2004 08:50:17  
A lot of plastic, Aluminum, and electronics in the new tractors. I don't think you will see many of the new tractors sold now being used in 25 years from now. It will be a shame to park a good tractor for want of an electronic module that is now obsolete.



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RAB

03-22-2004 11:06:09




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 Re: How Long Will A Tractor Last???? in reply to ken theobald, 03-22-2004 08:50:17  
Most of the old tractors in use now will still be going in 50 years time, so why the need for the modern stuff that is around now? 150 horse or more is not required for mowing grass.
8N Fords do not cost around 4 times what they were new. Just ask someone who knows, how many months money a tractor cost in those days.
Parts are still available for the 8N now, so why should they not be, in 50 years time?
Do you know how to work on them? Then either you might still be around in 50 years time or you may have time yet to teach someone now.
50 years is not that long ahead, really!
OK, I can see where you are coming from, but is it worth worrying about, it when we have all our old iron plodding along.
The most likely scenario is that someone will pass a law to either stop us using the old iron or need it for scrap 'cos energy supplies have been used up!
Regards, RAB

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ken theobald

03-22-2004 11:20:21




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 Re: Re: How Long Will A Tractor Last???? in reply to RAB, 03-22-2004 11:06:09  
I think you missed my point.The tractor that is 50 yrs. old now will probably still be here because they will still be fixable.The new stuff now won't be.



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RAB

03-22-2004 13:30:19




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 Re: Re: Re: How Long Will A Tractor Last???? in reply to ken theobald, 03-22-2004 11:20:21  
Read my post properly. About half way down it should be clear to you that I knew EXACTLY where you were coming from but..... .
Regards, RAB



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Alberta Mike

03-22-2004 09:32:56




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 Re: How Long Will A Tractor Last???? in reply to ken theobald, 03-22-2004 08:50:17  
Good question, somehow I don't think so, especially today in our throwaway society. As far as being able to fix them, those older simple tractors seemed pretty complex and confusing to farmers back in the 20's who only knew how to use a team of horses, so I guess a guy never knows.



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greenbeanman

03-22-2004 10:37:06




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 Re: Re: How Long Will A Tractor Last???? in reply to Alberta Mike, 03-22-2004 09:32:56  
I don't know how long tractors will last, but I cringe at the plastic cars of today going to the salvage yards. So much for street rodding in the future.

A plastic dashboard may be safer, but if the vehicle sets out in the sun at work the dash will often split within 10-15 years.

My vote is cast that it will be a nightmare to attempt to restore current tractors in 40 to 50 years. It would probably be easier to restore a 100 year old tractor today than a current tractor after 40 years have past.

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Randy

03-22-2004 13:20:33




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 Re: Re: Re: How Long Will A Tractor Last???? in reply to greenbeanman, 03-22-2004 10:37:06  
Just look at 20 year old cars. The electronics, sensors, and injectors are no longer available in most cases. So the cars get scrapped. I remember my dad saying back then that the electronics and computers do a lot to make them run cleaner, make more power and get better mileage, but when these things start crapping out, we'll be left with a bunch of decent cars that won't run right or at all, and can't be made to. All due to derelict, obsolete electronics. He was right, and he was an electrical engineer! And the build quality is another story. They just don't seem as durable. So I think it's the same with tractors. As long as the parts are made, they can be rebuilt. Same with antique vehicles.

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