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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

JD diesel will not start

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Eric hendricks

02-25-2004 18:02:05




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I have a JD 301A 3cyl diesel that just turns over and puffs out I think a more than normal amount of white smoke and doesn't fire at all. It has a new batt.and cranks over good and fast. It has been running ok till a co-worker used it and dropped it off. It needed a new radiator and had a leak in the injector return line. I bled the system according to the book after replacing a 'T'. thanks for any help,eric

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Mike

02-26-2004 13:39:12




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 Re: JD diesel will not start in reply to Eric hendricks, 02-25-2004 18:02:05  
They didn't fill it with gasoline did they?



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Eric Hendricks

02-27-2004 23:30:53




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 Re: Re: JD diesel will not start in reply to Mike, 02-26-2004 13:39:12  
nope, it had diesel alright, but almost no water from the shot radiator.



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buickanddeere

02-26-2004 10:07:19




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 Re: JD diesel will not start in reply to Eric hendricks, 02-25-2004 18:02:05  
He blew a head gasket trying to run the engine on ether until the fuel system bled. Combustion chamber pressure got into the coolant system and split the rad. Now there at least one cylinder with low compression and likely two adjacent sucking/blowing back and forth. And all now have scored cylinder walls/rings/piston/crushed ring lands from ether detonation shockwave overpressure. I quit lending stuff a while ago.

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Eric Hendricks

02-27-2004 23:35:46




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 Re: Re: JD diesel will not start in reply to buickanddeere , 02-26-2004 10:07:19  
this sounds pretty bad, they did run it hard and put away wet .



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Butcher

02-26-2004 07:35:12




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 Re: JD diesel will not start in reply to Eric hendricks, 02-25-2004 18:02:05  
I have the same tractor at work. Seems some of my co workers cant read a fuel gauge and run it out of fuel occasionally. After bleeding according to the book it sometimes takes a shot of ether to get her to fire. I just had to have the rad. rebuilt in it also. It cost $300. at the local rad shop. I almost had a heart attack. Especially when I found out the JD dealer is selling brand new after market ones for$200.

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david val

02-25-2004 23:41:31




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 Re: JD diesel will not start in reply to Eric hendricks, 02-25-2004 18:02:05  
there were cases that uncareful use of ether caused shearing of the key of the injection pump gear altering the injection timing. there were other cases that the pistons were damaged. after doing the tests in the other post, you can check timing by removing the timing cover of the pump (small rectungle cover with two small screws, inserting the timing pin in its hole and turning the engine slowly in direction of rotation while pressing the timing pin with a finger until it enters it's hole in the flywheel. when that happens the timing marks in the window should align. if the mark is not seen, rotate the engine another 180 deg. if the marks don't line up, then you're out of time. (i guess a margin of about 1/16 in. is incorrect timing but not a sheared key).
if timing is ok, next step is compression test.
david

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Eric Hendricks

02-27-2004 23:39:38




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 Re: Re: JD diesel will not start in reply to david val, 02-25-2004 23:41:31  
thanks, I'll give this a try. It sounds like this could be it!



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jdemaris

02-25-2004 18:40:33




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 Re: JD diesel will not start in reply to Eric hendricks, 02-25-2004 18:02:05  
It would help to know what happened to it and why it needed a new radiator. It's a pretty simple engine, and like any diesel it needs compression and fuel delivery to run. Since it's a diesel, proper compression + proper amount of fuel will result in ignition. If I was on a road call, and had no history on the machine, I would first crank it and look for smoke. You already mentioned white smoke, so it must be getting some fuel. Then crack the injectors loose where the fuel lines attach, crank it again, and see if a good drip of fuel comes out of each one. If yes . . . at this point I'd suspect low compression. Tighten the lines back up, and try puting some ether to it and see if it makes a difference. If it starts with ether and starts to run half-way decent once it gets hot, than YES you do have a compression problem - perhaps from being severely overheated?
I'm being a little simplistic here, but the little Deere 3 cylinder diesels will run pretty good with no top piston rings at all - but they won't start that way. If you come up with more information, I can be more precise and specific.

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Dirthog

02-26-2004 04:05:37




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 Re: Re: JD diesel will not start in reply to jdemaris, 02-25-2004 18:40:33  
A deisel engine needs FOUR things to run. Fuel
Air
compression
timing



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jdemaris

02-26-2004 05:28:45




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 Re: Re: Re: JD diesel will not start in reply to Dirthog, 02-26-2004 04:05:37  
Yeah . . . I said I was being simplistic and I wasn't trying to write a service manual - just provide some non-technical real-world advice. Guess you can add #5 to your list - the diesel needs someone to start it. Or #1b - the CORRECT fuel, or #3b - not just compression, but enough compression to cause enough heat for combustion to result, etc. etc. &c. Another note - if there is no air, what is being compressed? Since, as far as I can tell, the thing ran when it was borrowed, but now does not - and needed a new radiator - I made some quick assumptions based on data provided, i.e. inferrence. Lack of air isn't going to make the engine push white smoke at cranking speed. As far as timing goes, theres very little chance, on that engine, that the timing got far enough out to prevent it from starting unless someone had it apart. There's no timing chain, and nothing inside the pump that can make it go that far out of wack. The pump driveshaft is designed to shear when strained, but if so, it would pump NO fuel. The fuel-pressure regulator inside the Roosa Master injection pump can blow its plug and overadvance - but not at cranking speed. The pump's head and rotor can get scored to a point where not enough fuel can be pumped to start at cranking speed, the old-style governor weight retaining ring can shatter and subsequently, pieces of it can plug the housing pressure-regulator/check-valve where the return fuel line hooks - and make the pump shut off after it starts, etc. etc.

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Rob Perrier

11-08-2004 13:37:39




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: JD diesel will not start in reply to jdemaris, 02-26-2004 05:28:45  
Help please! Lucked on to this thread while looking for help with JD 300 loader. very rare over here. Bought it recently from farmer who claimed it ran but had sat for a year. No radiator problems, but replaced worn gear and rod on injector pump. Weird type, no stop cable, not in manual but shown in parts book. Diesel to injectors, cranks over, used ether but no smoke, some crank resistance and also feels like compression when turned by hand? Don"t want to replace injectors if not needed or pull head off if I can"t get gasket / parts here. Judging by comments here, timing may be a little out but not enough to not start? Pump is a Roosa Master CBC3-1AL with a rod type speed / stop control. Could this be the problem? No idea how to adjust it - as I said, not in manual. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated!

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