Welcome! Please use the navigational links to explore our website.
PartsASAP LogoCompany Logo Auction Link (800) 853-2651

Shop Now

   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver

Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

LPG to NG

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author 
J Willis

02-05-2004 22:09:03




Report to Moderator

Does anyone know the pros, cons and how to's of switching a tractor from lpg to natural gas? Thanks James




[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
Hal/WA

02-08-2004 00:33:10




Report to Moderator
 Re: LPG to NG in reply to J Willis, 02-05-2004 22:09:03  
Years ago in one of the gasoline shortage scares, the agency I was working for did an experiment converting a couple of the fleet cars to run on compressed natural gas. Those cars seemed to run OK, but were a bit down on power from similar gasoline models. The guys assigned to operate those cars complained about the fact that the fuel tanks took a great deal of the room in the trunks of the cars and yet the range of the vehicles was less than 100 miles on CNG, which caused them to have to fill the CNG tanks much more often than they would have had to with a gasoline fueled car, which wasted valuable time. They also could only fuel up at the gas company shop, as the equipment to compress and dispense the natural gas was very expensive. After about 6 months, the experiment was judged to be fairly impractical and the cars were stripped of the CNG equipment.

If a person had a source for free natural gas and could get the equipment to deal with compressing the natural gas, storing it and using it cheaply enough, it might make sense to try it in a tractor or other movable engines.

But natural gas: methane has a lot less energy potential than an equal volume of propane. I would think that the existing mechanism for using propane would have to be modified to add a lot higher volume of natural gas over what it now handles with propane. And of course you would need the proper pressure regulators to get the highly compressed natural gas pressure down to where the tractor could handle it efficiently and safely. All this sounds expensive and complex to me.

Propane or natural gas would have some advantages--they do have higher octane ratings than gasoline and would allow the use of higher compression ratios. And using a gaseous fuel cuts down on wear to the engine and much reduced contamination of the lubricating oil so in theory an engine should last longer. But at today's high propane prices, I doubt that I would ever convert any of my engines to run on propane.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
buickanddeere

02-06-2004 11:19:30




Report to Moderator
 Re: LPG to NG in reply to J Willis, 02-05-2004 22:09:03  
LP runs at 7 inches pressure after the regulator and natural gas 13 inches pressure, if memory serves correctly. Methane (natural gas) has even a higher octane rating than LP. That's how some stationary "diesel's" use a "carb" and mix natural gas and air. Pilot injection is used when just enough diesel that the engine would normally idle on, is injected into the combustion chamber. The burning diesel ignites the natural gas and the engine runs fine. There is a reduction of power but the engine runs clean and cheap. As far as power a spark ignition LP or natural gas that inject vapour are about equal. There are some experiments where a high pressure injector is placed in the intake port next to the intake valve. To inject liquid LP or natural gas vapour. There are home fill units for filling compressed natural gas vehicles/equipment overnight. Fuel Maker is the name and are in Mississauga or Etobicoke. Compressed natural gas is fine except it's bulkier to carry than LP diesel or gasoline. Takes some Kw's of electricity to compressed the gas. The stuff is cheap enough to still be worth using.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Roger

02-07-2004 16:45:20




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: LPG to NG in reply to buickanddeere, 02-06-2004 11:19:30  
I always thought natural was around 4 inches WC & LP is 11 inches WC.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
MT Pockets

02-07-2004 17:32:37




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: LPG to NG in reply to Roger, 02-07-2004 16:45:20  
On LPG carburetion,the pressure at the final regulator outlet is 0 gauge or 14.7 absolute (atmospheric pressure).It takes vacuum, which is created at the venturi in the carburetor, to pull the vapor in to be mixed with air in the proper ratio for combustion.You can disconnect the gas hose from the carb and no gas will escape. Thanks Steve.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Roger

02-07-2004 21:54:56




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Re: LPG to NG in reply to MT Pockets, 02-07-2004 17:32:37  
Steve, you're right, I was thinking of furnaces, water heaters, stoves etc. I forgot about the "almost a vacuum condition" for an LP carb



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
RAB

02-05-2004 23:18:56




Report to Moderator
 Re: LPG to NG in reply to J Willis, 02-05-2004 22:09:03  
I s'pose if it were going to be static use and already a surplus of power then it could be done. No haulage and fuel storage costs. But then the question is why a tractor? - Just use a stationary engine.
Regards, RAB



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Jon H

02-05-2004 22:53:38




Report to Moderator
 Re: LPG to NG in reply to J Willis, 02-05-2004 22:09:03  
Propane will remain liquid at less than 200 psi at normal temperature. A gallon of liquid propane will make around 200 gallons of propane vapor,so you can carry a lot of fuel in a small tank. Compressed natural gas takes a very strong tank as you need to compress it to 3000+ psi to get any meaningfull amount of fuel in it. The only way to get anywhere near the amount of energy in a NG tank as compared to propane is to liquify NG. This takes an insulated tank capable of standing aprox 4-5000 psi. To liquify NG you need to cool it to more than 100 below 0 F and compress it to near 5000 psi. A tank of liquid NG has to be used as soon as it is filled,because it absorbes heat from it's surrondings, As the tank absorbes heat the LNG boils and will overpressure the tank untill it explodes unless the NG vapor is either used in an engine or vented.
Stick with propane unless you want to run a stationary engine off a NG line.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
MarkB

02-06-2004 03:13:15




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: LPG to NG in reply to Jon H, 02-05-2004 22:53:38  
Jon,

One other thing about using compressed natural gas: it requires special equipment to compress it as you describe. I'm sure this would be several thousand dollars, unless you happen to have a CNG filling station next door. Propane, of course, can be filled directly from a bulk tank.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Ernie Bob

02-05-2004 22:30:58




Report to Moderator
 Re: LPG to NG in reply to J Willis, 02-05-2004 22:09:03  
If I'm not mistaken, LPG has a higher BTU value than NG. There fore switching to NG you'd sacrifice performance.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Bob

02-06-2004 05:07:37




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: LPG to NG in reply to Ernie Bob, 02-05-2004 22:30:58  
We had a truck at work that used natural gas.We had to get rid of it when the local gas company
closed down the fill station.The next closest place was 50 miles away.It required 2 tanks
to give us a 150 mile range.One tank was underneath and one was in the bed.It was the
size of a large truck tool box.The truck was only a pickup with a 5.4 engine.It did seem to have just as much power as a conventional gasoline engine.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:


TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
We sell tractor parts!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy