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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Chain and binder advice

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JimH

01-21-2004 06:06:55




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just bought a trailer to haul our tractors to shows, now need some advice on keeping them on the trailer. People I have talked to say use chain and load binders on each corner, not the webstraps. My question is what size chain do I need and how long a length of chain do i need? Tractor weighs roughly 6000#.




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novice

01-24-2004 00:43:24




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 Re: Chain and binder advice in reply to JimH, 01-21-2004 06:06:55  
Good comments below. Wiring or Zip tie the breakover type binder handle around or through the chain. I also drop my chain hooks down through the stake pockets, around and up and hang the hook ot the top. That way if the chain should come loose a bit it tends to hang on the hook and not flop around loose where it can come up out of the stake pocket. Of course if it's too loose, it can bounce up and off but it should never get that loose. I also find I need to stop and tighten down after several miles after things settle in and bounce around a bit. I like the comment about seperately tieing off the boomers to the chain so if something does come loose, they still stay connected to the chain.

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Ron 1456

01-21-2004 19:42:00




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 Re: Chain and binder advice in reply to JimH, 01-21-2004 06:06:55  
I hope the people who are interested in this subject read all the followup to this post. There is some very good information here. All I wish to add is that when you go to buy chains and binders you should go to a place that sells new semi trailers if you want to save some money. Don't go to one of the "farm" stores because they are so overpriced it is almost laughable. Also use the phone and shop around before you buy. A lot of the trailer dealers run specials on tie down equiupment from time to time and they will have about everything you could possibly need.

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Ray,IN

01-21-2004 18:43:17




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 Re: Chain and binder advice in reply to JimH, 01-21-2004 06:06:55  
Do a search for this subject in the "articles" section. A trucker wrote a very good article throughly explaning how to chain a load under the "new" rules.



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49 Cubber!

01-21-2004 15:19:36




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 Re: Chain and binder advice in reply to JimH, 01-21-2004 06:06:55  
Just my opinion on binders,but I like the rachet type binders.Dont have to worry about them snapping open,and if you leave them in the tighten position it wont vibrate loose fron turn the wrong way.Some people hate the ratchet type,threads will rust up and make it hard to turn and they are somewhat of a PITA to use,but I feel beter using those.



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720Deere

01-21-2004 15:06:10




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 Re: Chain and binder advice in reply to JimH, 01-21-2004 06:06:55  
As I posted below in response to John, there is alot of hype about the supposed "new law" starting as of the first of the year. This is not a new law, it came into effect in 2002 and January 2004 was the mandated enforcement date. It only takes 10 minutes to read directly from the federal regs and then you will know what you need and how it applies to you. Take a minute and follow the link below that way you can make interpret it for yourself.

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Mark

01-21-2004 15:24:57




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 Re: Re: Chain and binder advice in reply to 720Deere, 01-21-2004 15:06:10  
You want to pay my ticket for an inproperly secured load. A NH 785 skid loader(4500#) I had it chained front and rear,but not 4 corners.I got pulled over for a random DOT check in Indiana,this is when I found out about the 4 corner rule to the tune of $275. This was from a DOT inspector,not a local trooper. His quote was "any wheeled vehicle or equipment must be secured at all four corners irreguardless of weight"

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720Deere

01-21-2004 15:46:35




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 Re: Re: Re: Chain and binder advice in reply to Mark, 01-21-2004 15:24:57  
I suggest that you go to court. Officers and DOT inspectors make their own interpretation of the laws and regulations. That's not to say that Indiana law is not more stringent than the federal regs. Local laws can supercede the federal requirements. It's like OSHA requirements, they are the minimum with some local jurisdictions requiring more.

I can't vouch for Indiana's laws, but it would not be the first time that an officer of the law issued an invalid citation. According to part 393.130a, "Vehicles, equipment and machinery which is lighter than 10,000 lb may also be secured in accordance with the provisions of this section, with 393.128, or in accordance with the provisions of 393.100 through 393.114." Part 393.128b1 states that "Automobiles, light trucks, and vans must be restrained at both the front and rear to prevent lateral, forward, rearward and vertical movement using a minimum of two tiedowns."

By the federal regs, the only thing he could have written you up on was that your skidsteer is longer than 10 feet and requires at least 3 tiedowns.

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john

01-22-2004 06:33:39




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Chain and binder advice in reply to 720Deere, 01-21-2004 15:46:35  
Have to agree with you here. Get a copy of the green bible and any time a DOT officer goes to write a ticket tell him to show you the law.
Go to court on this one.

Only gray area I can see in your post is the 10ft rule. It say you can use 393.128 OR (NOT AND) 393.100-114 If I use 393.128 to tie down equiptment less than 10,000# it says nothing about the 10ft rule.



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kyhayman

01-21-2004 19:05:59




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Chain and binder advice in reply to 720Deere, 01-21-2004 15:46:35  
Well said, the guys that do the enforcement just right the tickets. I got crosswise of one four years ago and befor eit was over I had 6 tickets worth over $1,300. Spent $300 and hired a lawyer, took it to court and entered a not guilty with a motion for dismissal and a motion for a jury trial if not dismissed. Judge read through it, looked at the evidence and dismissed everthing.



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Mark

01-21-2004 14:15:12




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 Re: Chain and binder advice in reply to JimH, 01-21-2004 06:06:55  
DOT rules changed at the first of the year. No straps on equipment. Equipment must be chained at minimum at all four corners with DOT approved chains and binders. If equipment is strapped,it is considered an unsecured load with the appropriate fine.Straps are OK for crates,and boxes,or securing a loose part on something already chained down,but not for equipment



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Indydirtfarmer

01-21-2004 14:12:54




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 Re: Chain and binder advice in reply to JimH, 01-21-2004 06:06:55  
A couple weeks ago, I set out on a mission. I tracked down a Vehicle Enforcement Officer from the Kentucky State Police, and then one from the Indiana State Police. I asked both of them some of the questions that pop up on here from time to time. They both gave me the same answers. First, if you're under 26,000 lbs GVW, AND your not a commercial vehicle, you needn't worry about a CDL, or most of the rest of the formalities associated with commercial rigs. You MUST use grade 70, or better chains and binders. You have to have 4 chains on any wheeled vehicle being hauled on a trailer. You have to have ANOTHER chain securing any impliment hooked to the tractor. Should the tractor have a loader, or a back-hoe, there must be another chain over them also. They also told me that you should observe all state laws, and the laws of COMMON SENSE. Don't do anything to attract attention to yourself. A good officer can find SOMETHING wrong with any truck/trailer rig. Don't do anything stupid, so as to make them look closer. They also suggested I go to the local liscence branch, and get a copy of the state(s) vehicle laws. Both officers kept repeating the "COMMON SENSE" thing. John

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jim

01-21-2004 10:00:19




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 Re: Chain and binder advice in reply to JimH, 01-21-2004 06:06:55  
Every one seems to have size down to a T. But the biggest thing to kkep in mind, you must always keep the chains tight, real tight. You can bind a big load with 1/4 chain(not legally/not smart) and as long as you do not let the chain get snapped hard, it will not brake, have pulled trucks with a gross of over 20,000# with a 1/4" chain. but use a grade 80 3/8" chain and keep it real tight, and you should never have any problems.

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John

01-21-2004 09:48:56




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 Re: Chain and binder advice in reply to JimH, 01-21-2004 06:06:55  
With a 6000# tractor you are going to be real close if not over the 10,000# cut off to put you under DOT rule and all that it implyes. Any thing over 10,000# gross weight and you must follow there rules.

The problem with webstraps is people want to use those 2" ones with the ratchet in the straping. These will not hold a load and are hard to use with out cutting on the tractor. The 4" DOT straps are much better but require more expensive ratchets that bolt/weld to trailer.

Chains have many different ratings; Grade-30;43;70;80;100. If it is not marked by the manufacturer then it will be considered grade 30. All loads should be tied down at 1 1/2 times its weight or 9000# in this case. The weight ratings for 3/8 chain are...
Grade30..1,200# G43..2450# G70..2990# G80..3200# G100..4000#
Now you can see why you need 4 tie downs. Even with grade 100 chain 2 tie downs would not be enough 4000X2=8000# you need 9000# So you will need 4 grade 43 3/8 chains and binders. Remember they must be marked with grade or weight ratings. All chains must have hooks on each end as no knots are allowed. (You could also use 4 grade 100 5/16 chains to do this but think the 3/8 would cost less because of the grade)

The snap type binders are cheaper to buy but let me say I have seen broken cheek bones; arms; ECT from their use. Just spend the extra and get the ratchet type binders of a grade to pass your weight requirement.

Hope this helps.
John

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720Deere

01-21-2004 15:00:08




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 Re: Re: Chain and binder advice in reply to John, 01-21-2004 09:48:56  
John,

I can't argue with most of what you said. It pretty much reflects the Federal regulations with the exception of tiedown strength. According to 49 CFR part 393.106d, "the aggregate working load limit of any securement system used to secure an article or group of articles against movement must be at least one-half times the weight of the article or group of articles."

I have included a link to the Federal Register so anyone interested in getting it from the horses mouth can do so. There are alot of "heresay" interpretations out there.

The 4 corner tie-down requirement applies only to mobile equipment weighing 10000 lbs or more.

Link

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john

01-22-2004 05:41:23




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 Re: Re: Re: Chain and binder advice in reply to 720Deere, 01-21-2004 15:00:08  
OK so I read this as one and a half times
What you or saying is one half times
So that would mean a 6000# tractor would have to have a chain system large enough to hold 3000# correct. Or are you saying each chain needs to be able to hold 3000# ???

That is the main trouble with the DOT rules. You got to be a lawyer to under stand them. Even the DOT don't under stand them.



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720Deere

01-22-2004 08:07:22




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Chain and binder advice in reply to john , 01-22-2004 05:41:23  
John,

It says basically that the total strength of all tiedowns must equal 1/2 the weight of the load being secured. If you have a 10,000 lb load secured with 4 chains, each chain and binder would have to be rated a minimum of 1,250 lbs.



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Chris Brown

01-21-2004 09:44:02




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 Re: Chain and binder advice in reply to JimH, 01-21-2004 06:06:55  
I was at the green dealer the other day and I saw a neat way of binding down a tractor. They chained a big loop around the top third to half of the tire and down to the stake pocket on the trailer,then a binder,they had this on all four tires.No scuffs on the paint that way and it was tight enough the tires squated.This was a smaller probably 40 hp tractor.



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Van

01-21-2004 08:55:23




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 Re: Chain and binder advice in reply to JimH, 01-21-2004 06:06:55  
Iuse the gold 5/16" chain and I use four pieces, with either four or two binders. If a chain does happen to break on either end I have one more for a safety factor. If I have one tractor on I usually use four binders one on each corner. Since I have 7 binders now if I haul two tractors I chain the back of each tractor evenly and then roll forward to tighten chains, finish off with two chains with load binders up front. With new rules that are comming into effect I may get a ticket for this I dont know. It seems to me that I chain better than the guys with one chain on each end.
Van

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ewbeye

01-21-2004 08:10:11




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 Re: Chain and binder advice in reply to JimH, 01-21-2004 06:06:55  
5/16 transport chain will hold about anything you can legally haul on your smaller trailer. When binding down your tractor or load, always make sure your chain is not twisted - keep it straight. Have one chain for front of load and one for rear of load. Attach them so they are pulling away and to the side of the load on each end. You want to eliminate movement (to-fro,side-side,up-down). Bind it tight, so the tires squat some, but don't break a spindle! Use a good binder (Screw or snap type), but whatever you do wire the binder, binder handle, and chain together. That way if something happens, your binder will stay with your chain and not end up in an oncoming windshield. For additional safety, try to keep binders on passenger side if possible. If you have the snap type binders, get a good 2-3"x 30" pipe for a safety lever. Always pull or push your pipe away from you when binding. Get a good pair of leather gloves for chaining/binding and keep them in your truck near your seat or in the door pouch. They protect and keep your hands clean, so your steering wheel and gear shift keep clean.

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markct

01-21-2004 09:32:49




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 Re: Re: Chain and binder advice in reply to ewbeye, 01-21-2004 08:10:11  
i always like my binders on the drivers side so i can keep an eye on them in the mirror



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ShepFL

01-21-2004 12:08:10




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 Re: Re: Re: Chain and binder advice in reply to markct, 01-21-2004 09:32:49  
Ditto on the binder placement. Don't always have a passenger. I also check load first 5 miles, 25 miles and finally 50. I only use the gold colored chain on my tractors; for implements I use 5/16 chain from the local home center.

Best advise ever given to me was that if the trailer hitch broke that tractor better still be on the trailer when Hiway Patrol and/or DOT arrive on the scene, be it upside down, sideways in the ditch etc. If not, I would be considered the liable party.

I usually run chain to four corners. Hooks are down thru the stake pocket and hooked back to the pocket with the open end facing down. I use snap over binders.

Seen some loads going down the road on private and commercial rigs that scared the shutt out me! I hurried to get around them cause I did not want that load coming off in front of or on top of me.
FWIW

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rustyfarmall

01-21-2004 07:47:42




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 Re: Chain and binder advice in reply to JimH, 01-21-2004 06:06:55  
To be 100% legal you need to use what is called transport chain, it can be identified by the yellow-gold color. It has the load rating and breaking strength required by the D.O.T.



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mike

01-21-2004 06:23:09




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 Re: Chain and binder advice in reply to JimH, 01-21-2004 06:06:55  
A 5/16" chain should be plenty or you could go with a 3/8". Most stock chains come with hooks and are anywhere from 12 to 20 feet long. Take a piece of rope and "mock" chaining down your tractor then measure it's length to be sure. Be sure to spend good money on binders! There are very cheap ones out there that are bad! You sure don't want your investment coming off your trailer. If you have a truck dealer in your area(freightliner...kenworth...peterbuilt) they usually sell good quality chains and binders that are DOT certified. Good luck.

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old

01-21-2004 06:18:02




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 Re: Chain and binder advice in reply to JimH, 01-21-2004 06:06:55  
I'd go with no smaller then 3/8 high ten. chain its over kill and for 50 feet will run about $1 or more a foot and you shoud probably have 3 or 4 length of 25 feet or more. As far as binders get the screw type they are easyer tighten and safer also. By the way I'm a retired trucker so I have hauled many a load in my day



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