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Propane vs Gas for fuel consumption ????

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Alberta Mike

01-16-2004 10:01:49

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Up here auto propane sells for about 60-65% of regular gas price at the pump. How does fuel consumption (or mileage I guess) compare between propane and gas vehicles? I know that propane has less BTU's of energy per unit so I assume that vehicle mileage would be less too.

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Mike

01-17-2004 22:41:12

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Re: Propane vs Gas for fuel consumption ???? in reply to Alberta Mike, 01-16-2004 10:01:49

Have a 79 Dodge Maxivan 318 CI 3 speed with overdrive manual transmission, 350 rear axle ratio, 235/75/R15 tires I used on a US Mail contract route, 355 miles all highway runs 5 days a week. At 12000 miles switched to propane only, removed fuel pump and carburetor. Keep record of all fuel and repairs. Fuel consumption for gas was 16.8. Propane milage is 12.86. Changed oil filter every 25000 miles, oil every 100,000 miles. Not a missprint, every 100,000 miles. Oil at 100,000 miles still looked like it had just been changed. Run it 5 years until contract expired. Currently has 721,000 still runs good, just getting a little weak. Had a 79 Chev 1 ton dually 350CI 4 speed transmission 4.11 rear axle ratio 16" radial tires, with 7'X11' 6' high box used on another route, used propane on this vehicle also. Gas was 7.8, propane was 5.3. Just my experience with propane usage.

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Shane

01-18-2004 19:03:13

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Re: Re: Propane vs Gas for fuel consumption ???? in reply to Mike, 01-17-2004 22:41:12

Did you use synthetic oil or rugular old oil? I read where regular oil will only last for about 10,000 miles before it breaks down and doesn't lubricate any more. Of course with everyday driving most oil will get too dirty to lubricate any more, usually at 3,000- 5,000 miles. The only thing that allows regular oil to last 10,000 miles are big rigs and that is due to the fact that they are mostly highway and hold between 5 and 10 gallons of oil.

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Mike

01-19-2004 09:08:06

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Re: Re: Re: Propane vs Gas for fuel consumption ?? in reply to Shane, 01-18-2004 19:03:13

Never tried synthetic. I use Valvoline 10/30. Propane burns clean and doesn't contaminate the oil like gas does when burning during combustion. Oil in diesels may appear very dirty but the oil is holding the contaminates in suspension and it gets drained out during oil change. When tearing down most diesels the inside of the engine is usually pretty clean, not a lot of sludge buildup like a lot of gas engines.

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Jon H

01-18-2004 09:59:02

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Re: Re: Propane vs Gas for fuel consumption ???? in reply to Mike, 01-17-2004 22:41:12

Thanks for posting that Mike, it proves a statment from an old propane conversion book I once owned. " Propane burns so clean and dry that If the aircleaner is doing it's job,the piston rings will die of metal fatigue long before wearing out" :)

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Kennyp

01-16-2004 11:51:53

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Re: Propane vs Gas for fuel consumption ???? in reply to Alberta Mike, 01-16-2004 10:01:49

Years ago I changed a LA Case to propane. It used just about enough more gas to come out about equal to gasoline for cost. Ran it a couple of years, then changed back. If you had higher compression, then the added HP would be worth some thing.

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Mike M

01-16-2004 10:46:14

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Re: Propane vs Gas for fuel consumption ???? in reply to Alberta Mike, 01-16-2004 10:01:49

I teased my local propane supplier the other day because they are running trucks with diesel engines. He said its too hard to find propane trucks and hard to find someone to work on them. This is in northcentral Ohio.

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Shane

01-16-2004 12:09:06

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Re: Re: Propane vs Gas for fuel consumption ???? in reply to Mike M, 01-16-2004 10:46:14

We have a '78 Chevy flat bed with a 350 that runs on propane. The only difference in the engine is the air filter unit. The carb and everything else is the exact same. And the propane system is really simple, a few shut-off valves, a heater that runs engine water to keep it from icing up in cold, and a bladder type valve body (which pretty much just has a rubber bladder that controls the amount of flow). Very simple and the cleanest burning fuel for vehicles. If you ever tear apart a propane engine it will be as clean as the day it was put together assuming no oil leaks or cracked something. But it does get less fuel mileage, maybe a mile or two to the gallon less. But since we can fill it off of our lp tanks for our corn drier and we get that gas for rather cheap it ends up costing only half to run the lp. Forgot to mention you can switch between gas and lp with a switch and a pull. Of course it is still cheaper to run our '91 GMC with the Cat diesel and it has way way more power.

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49 Cubber!

01-16-2004 12:43:41

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Re: Re: Re: Propane vs Gas for fuel consumption ?? in reply to Shane, 01-16-2004 12:09:06

yep,thats a new one on me too!And Im a fork lift mechanic! I deal with propane systems every day!

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marlowe

01-16-2004 12:28:59

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Re: Re: Re: Propane vs Gas for fuel consumption ?? in reply to Shane, 01-16-2004 12:09:06

no way in {{{{hel-}}}} is the carb. the same how do you run vapor in a carb. that would be a cool trick.

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Jon H

01-16-2004 14:07:40

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Propane vs Gas for fuel consumptio in reply to marlowe, 01-16-2004 12:28:59

What he is refering to is a dual fuel mixer which replaces the air cleaner on top of the gasoline carb. The gasoline carb has no modifications except to have a 12V fuel solenoid in the fuel line. When operating on propane,the fuel solenoid to the gasoline carb is closed so it runs dry and only serves as a throttle body for the propane mixer mounted on top in place if the air cleaner. When operating on gasoline, a fuel solenoid turns off the supply of propane to the mixer so it operates only as an air cleaner for the gasoline carb which has it's fuel solenoid opened so it again works as a gasoline carb. A very simple and efficient system that allows a change from gasoline to propane fuel in no more time than it takes for the gasoline carb to run out of fuel. I run several tractors and pickups with this system and would guess the mpg difference is close to 5%. The BTU difference between gasoline and propane would say the difference should be more, but it seems the propane system seems to be more efficient at combusting it's fuel than the carb gasoline systems. Like they say, your mileage may vary.

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Shane

01-16-2004 19:55:00

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Propane vs Gas for fuel consum in reply to Jon H, 01-16-2004 14:07:40

Thanks for puttin him in his place and explaining that for me! I guess a way in he)) just opened up!

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49 Cubber!

01-16-2004 17:26:54

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Propane vs Gas for fuel consum in reply to Jon H, 01-16-2004 14:07:40

I would really like to se this setup,know of any pics on the net anywhere?I have been working on forklifts with propane systems for about 5 years and have never heard of anything like that!

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MT Pockets

01-17-2004 11:30:32

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Propane vs Gas for fuel co in reply to 49 Cubber!, 01-16-2004 17:26:54

hERE'S SOME PICTURES. WWW.leklein.com MT Pockets.

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Jon H

01-16-2004 21:30:59

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Propane vs Gas for fuel co in reply to 49 Cubber!, 01-16-2004 17:26:54

Sorry 49 Cubber, I could not find a site on google or other search engine that had any pictures of a dual fuel(propane/gasoline) system. One thing I did find was a forklift for sale with a dual fuel system on it,so they exist even for forklifts. Be gentle to each other guys, be a diplomat. The definition of a diplomat being someone who when really necessary will tell you to go to he!!,but can do it so gently that you look forward to the trip :)

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marlowe

01-16-2004 15:25:59

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Propane vs Gas for fuel consum in reply to Jon H, 01-16-2004 14:07:40

i said that because i can just see some one running a line off a 20lb.cly. to there reg. carb. boy would that be a fire ball

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WHAT'S A -----CLY?

01-17-2004 11:46:44

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Propane vs Gas for fuel co in reply to marlowe , 01-16-2004 15:25:59

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RAB

01-17-2004 01:26:31

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Propane vs Gas for fuel co in reply to marlowe , 01-16-2004 15:25:59

Really! I think not ...and if you did, then you didn't explain it very well did you?
Regards, RAB

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MT Pockets

01-16-2004 15:08:43

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Propane vs Gas for fuel consum in reply to Jon H, 01-16-2004 14:07:40

Jon H,your description is 100% correct.I worked in the LPG business about 4 years. I installed, converted, and repaired carburetion systems on cars, trucks, tractors, and cotton pickers. Back then(early 70s) LP gas was 15 cents and gasoline was about 32 cents. We didn't worry about mileage too much. I recently saw a new GMC 2 ton truck with what I'm assuming was factory propane.(somebody correct me if I'm wrong) On the side of the hood it said EFI LPG, or something very near that. It was a Schwanns delivery truck. Anybody else seen this? Thanks. MT Pockets.

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SD Ted

01-16-2004 15:17:42

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Propane vs Gas for fuel co in reply to MT Pockets, 01-16-2004 15:08:43

I would assume that this is a propane truck from the factory. Schwann's has predominately run propane trucks. We have purchased a couple to over the years to use as farm trucks.

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Ben in KY

01-16-2004 14:48:20

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Propane vs Gas for fuel consum in reply to Jon H, 01-16-2004 14:07:40

Thanks for the good explanation Jon.

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RAB

01-16-2004 13:38:23

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Propane vs Gas for fuel consumptio in reply to marlowe, 01-16-2004 12:28:59

Marlowe,
I think he was referring to the fact that the carb is still there, for use as and whenever required, with just a few additions for the propane system. Making it a duel fuel vehicle, not like a fork lift truck that uses only propane.
Regards, RAB

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Bob

01-16-2004 10:32:41

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Re: Propane vs Gas for fuel consumption ???? in reply to Alberta Mike, 01-16-2004 10:01:49

The typical number you see is about 20% less MPG.

For the best efficiency, propane needs a high compression engine.

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twopop

01-16-2004 16:40:56

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Re: Re: Propane vs Gas for fuel consumption ???? in reply to Bob, 01-16-2004 10:32:41

gasoline produces 120,000 btu's per gallon.propane is 96,000 btu's the 20% differance is close.

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