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not a tractor---but can you help me out??

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Bruce

01-12-2004 07:06:16




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I replaced a burnt exhaust valve in a Wisconsin four cyl air cooled engine ( in my Bobcat) and find the cyl that I worked on is running
REAL hot, while the other three run cool and the other three plugs alllook good. The plug from the cyl I worked on is running white. Also,I can see the exhaust valve in this cyl and it is white. I have check for "false air" and readjusted the valve clearance, still, runs too hot....If the timing were off, I would think more than just one cyl would run hot??? Am I wrong. I have not adjusted the timing, as I need to run this engine at more than 1800 rpm to adjust it and I hate
to run it at all for fear of burning this cyl up. Any advice?? I have been chasing this for a month now....

Thanks for any advice..

Bruce

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Bruce

01-13-2004 06:09:09




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 Re: not a tractor---but can you help me out?? in reply to Bruce, 01-12-2004 07:06:16  
Thanks for all the great advice. I am in the process of reinstalling my manifolds to run another test on the engine. Since some of you have worked on these engines, please tell me in which direction the exhaust gasket should go on. It is a small donut shaped metal gasket with a ridge of thin metal on one side. I first installed it with the thin ridge going INTO the engine, after running it only a very short time, the thin ridge is burning up, so now I am thinking it ought to be installed with the thin ridge goin INTO the manifold. Either way, this is a poor excuse for a gasket. Might have to make my own that seal better. I will keep the board posted on my progress. In answer to some of the posts, I do have the manual for this machine, and can now recite them from memory....If my next few tests don't work, then I will pull the head off and have all parts machined to ensure flatness, reseat valves ( including intake) and go at it again....but that is now my last resort. This next test will involve new plug wires, rotor, cap, points etc....timing, and gaskets...then if still hot, do the spray test for leaks...

Thanks again

Bruce

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Nominday

01-12-2004 21:29:20




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 Re: not a tractor---but can you help me out?? in reply to Bruce, 01-12-2004 07:06:16  
If you've burned an exhaust valve, replaced it and now you're cooking the same valve you've 'bout got to have a cracked or warped head or manifold leaking air. You SURELY checked and replaced both manifold and head gaskets?



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Phil

01-12-2004 20:52:49




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 Re: not a tractor---but can you help me out?? in reply to Bruce, 01-12-2004 07:06:16  
I am an aircraft mechanic. Most general aviation engines are air cooled. They depend on airflow to keep them cool. In the same token, they also require FUEL to help keep them cool. Only a small portion of the fuel in the air/fuel mixture is burned. The rest of the fuel helps to cool the cylinder. That is why airplanes have mixture controls and exhuast gas temp guages. This allows the pilot to find the best efficiency of the engine for a given temp. and altitude.

What does this mean here? I would bet there is a restriction or leak somewhere with the fuel/air ratio. You must have a leaky gasket, cracked head, etc. Something keeping the cylinder from getting the right amount of fuel. Does this engine have a carb. or is it direct fuel injected? Check all the lines and fitting and any fuel/air pathways. My guess is the engine is running way to lean on the one cylinder. I did not see where you mention that you changed any of the timing settings. Just that you changed a valve. Unless I missed that part. Start with a possible air leak or bad intake gasket and go from there.

Keep us posted.

Phil

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jim

01-12-2004 16:40:34




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 Re: not a tractor---but can you help me out?? in reply to Bruce, 01-12-2004 07:06:16  
blown gasket, cracked intake manifold, these can all be isolated to one cylinder. an easy way to check this is to take a can of carb cleaner, start the engine, then start spraying carb cleaner around all the intake gasket area, and around the manifold, if there is a leak there, the engine RPM will change, if it does, then that will pinpoint the leak, if not the ONLY other thing it can be is you have a spark plug that is bad or gapped wrong. this may sound stupid, but humor me, I have been doing this for over 25 years, and have seen more than one Kohler burn a head, because Kohler engines plugs are to be gapped at .025, and .030 CAN upset the timing and blow head gaskets because it is out of time. May not help you, but it sound to me as though you are at the end of your rope on this one, so I am adding more suggestions, let all of us know if oyu get this one whipped, it is got my curiousity up.

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Benj. J. Joe Browning

01-12-2004 12:45:05




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 Re: not a tractor---but can you help me out?? in reply to Bruce, 01-12-2004 07:06:16  
Hello Again Bruce, I reread your latest post. If I understood it correctly, you have the airs shrouds completely off. If so, you need to reinstall them. I think that if you do that and check the exhaust insuring there is not a blockage. It might be "OK". Lastly, you might check out the Stationary Engine section of this forum. There might be some older posting that could help you.
Again, I hope this helps. Joe

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JIM

01-12-2004 12:43:00




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 Re: not a tractor---but can you help me out?? in reply to Bruce, 01-12-2004 07:06:16  
HI BRUCE,I TOO HAVE AN OLDER BOBCAT WITH THE V-4 WISCONSON AIR COOLED,MINE HAS DONE THE SAME THING YOU DESCRIBED AND MINE TURNED OUT TO BE THE THE INTAKE AND EXHAUST GASKETS,EXHAUST STARTED LEAKING ANDBURNED UP INTAKE GASKETS AND THAT CREATED A LEAN MIXTURE,YOU ALSO MAY HAVE A CRACKED INTAKE MANIFOLD.



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Benj. J. Joe Browning

01-12-2004 12:13:51




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 Re: not a tractor---but can you help me out?? in reply to Bruce, 01-12-2004 07:06:16  
Hello Bruce, You might try calling the factory. Their number is 800-922-5632. Ext #6. Ask for Hike. Either he or one of the factory mechanics could aid you in pinpointing the problem.
I checked the service and parts book - trouble shooting- engine overheating. Check the following; Oils low,timed wrong,low gasoline grade,engine overloaded,restricted cooling air,parts of air shoud missing,dirt between cooling fins,engine operated in a confined space causing air recirculation, carbon in engine,dirty or wrong weight oil,restricted exhaust.
If you do not have one of the older service and parts books. Get one off Ebay. Hope this helps. Joe

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Bob

01-12-2004 11:19:43




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 Re: not a tractor---but can you help me out?? in reply to Bruce, 01-12-2004 07:06:16  
You may have remains of Rodentis Wisonsonis in you cooling fins, or you may have the wrong distributor, or the correct distributor timed wrong for you engine. If the timing is extremely late for the cylinder in question, that may have caused the burned valve, and the overheating problem in that cylinder.

Wisconsin used a couple of different crankshafts in the V-4 engines. Some were set up to fire at even intervals, and some were not, so there are two types of cams in the distributors. On the even-fire engines, the 4 cam lobes are equally spaced. On the odd-fire engine distributors, the cam lobes are unevenly spaced so the ignition sparks occur at the proper time for each cylinder.

If you have an odd-fire engine set up with an even fire distributor, or an even-fire engine set up with and odd-fire distributor, you're gonna have problems!

I don't know a quick way to determine which crankshaft your engine has. Of course, the camshafts are different, also, for the two designs. Maybe someone will post with more info. on this.

If you have an odd-fire engine, there is one correct way for the distributor to be timed to the engine in order for the timing to be correct for all 4 cylinders. I am away from the shop for the afternoon, so I can't get the timing procedure for you now, but if no one else posts, email me, and I'll find my Wisconsin VF-4 book when I get back to the shop.

The distributor rotor for the odd-fire distributor has a long, curved outer brass end, so the spark from the odd-fire cam will reach the spark plug terminals on the distributor cap with even-spaced terminals.

Several days ago, someone was dealing with an odd-fire version posted on this site. Here's the link...

Link

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MT Pockets

01-12-2004 09:50:55




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 Re: not a tractor---but can you help me out?? in reply to Bruce, 01-12-2004 07:06:16  
Bruce, timing wouldn't cause one cylinder to run hot. What I would look for is something blocking the airflow to this cylinder. I would suspect mice or a rat bed. You might have to remove the fan shroud from the engine to check for this. I had this very thing happen to an Onan generator once. The upper part of the cylinder, part of the head, and the muffler got hot enough to turn red. I removed the rat den and it solved the problem. It didn't hurt the engine. Lucky it was cast iron. Let us know what you find wrong. THANKS. MT.

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Bruce

01-12-2004 11:32:01




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 Re: Re: not a tractor---but can you help me out?? in reply to MT Pockets, 01-12-2004 09:50:55  
Thanks for the comments. I have completely cleaned this engine so I do not have any blockage on the cooling fins. In fact, as I am working on this I have the fan shrouding off, as it is only 10 degrees in my shop and I run it for only about 30 seconds at a time before it gets too hot, I don't think it is an external cooling problem, but a timing/too lean/ sucking air/ ????? problem. Only the one cly gets hot...the other all runs fine.....any other ideas???

Thanks

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MT Pockets

01-12-2004 12:32:03




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 Re: Re: Re: not a tractor---but can you help me ou in reply to Bruce, 01-12-2004 11:32:01  
Bruce, as usual,I'm a day late and a dollar short. My only other guess is sucking air/lean mixture that you mentioned. Does it hit equally on all 4 cylinders? My only experience with a Wisconsin was a 2 cylinder in a Davis trencher I owned once. Good engine. Let us know what fixes it. Thanks. MT.



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