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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Ford 1801 Timing

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Ron L.

01-03-2004 15:10:48




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OK, I have learned that I have a 1961, Ford 1801 industrial , 4cyl. Diesel Tractor. (Pictures in the tractor photos forum, under "unknown Ford) I pulled the motor out to replace the sherman over/under trans. and I think the timing is off. The tractor will fire up using eather but then dies. I;m not sure if the motor was disturbed while out of the tractor or not. Now I'm wondering how to set the timing in the proper order, I hear there are several different timing locations on the machine. I bought a Ford 55-60 shop manual but it will be 2-3 wks before it will get here. Anyone know how I can set the timing? Thanks guys for all the help. Ron @ rcma@dam.net Central Missouri

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RAB

01-04-2004 09:44:13




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 Re: Ford 1801 Timing in reply to Ron L., 01-03-2004 15:10:48  
No experience at all with this motor but reading your post and several of the replies makes me a little confused. Did you simply remove the engine, in one piece? If so, nothing will be disturbed unless the injection pump or timing gears were losened/unbolted from it.
My thoughts were simply lack of bleeding the system when reconnecting the fuel supply.
Regards,RAB



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Ron

01-09-2004 16:01:18




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 Re: Re: Ford 1801 Timing in reply to RAB, 01-04-2004 09:44:13  
After I puleed the motor and re-installed it, it wouldn't start. A friend of mine that was helping, pulled the fuel pump out while I wasn't looking and it still hasn't ran since. I think im on to the problem now, thanks to all of the help i got here in the fourm.. Ron



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Kevin (FL)

01-04-2004 06:46:26




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 Re: Ford 1801 Timing in reply to Ron L., 01-03-2004 15:10:48  
Ron,

I have the same tractor you have and also with a loader. Had my old friend (80 years young) come over and he helped me time the engine. I'll see him today and go over the procedure. Do you still need help with it or not?



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Ron

01-04-2004 10:53:58




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 Re: Re: Ford 1801 Timing in reply to Kevin (FL), 01-04-2004 06:46:26  
Kevin, Yes I still need the help. Glad to hear someone has the same tractor. For a while, I thought I had the only one built. After pulling the motor, I did have the roosa master pump taken off the motor. Now I cant get it to start. When cranking it over, I dont see that much fuel comming out of the pump.But then, I don't know how much should. Really it just kind of drips out. Should'nt it stream of spray out? I have more questions. Thanks for your message.

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Kevin (FL)

01-04-2004 18:46:06




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 Re: Re: Re: Ford 1801 Timing in reply to Ron, 01-04-2004 10:53:58  
Ron,

To time the 172, here's what you need to do:

1. Verify #1 piston is on compression stroke. Only way I know is to pull valve cover and watch intake valve opening and then closing as piston is on the upstroke.

2. Using timing window, look for numbers on flywheel. Depending on your pump number, the injection timing will either occur at 18 or 23 degrees BTDC. If the last digit on the pump is a D or a J it's 23 degrees or if the last digit is a B or no letter, then it's 18 degrees.

3. Once you roll the engine over to get it at the correct flywheel position (and #1 on compression stroke), now look at timing window on the side of pump. There are two marks that should be lined up if the timing is correct. If they are not lined up then the mounting bolts on the pump must be loosened and the pump rotated a little in either direction. The pump can't move much as the fuel lines pretty much lock it in position.

4. Once these marks line up then the pump is properly timed. Now you have to bleed the system, starting with the fuel filter and then the bleed nut on the side of the pump. At this point you can also crack the injector lines (nuts) and spin the engine over until a good fuel spraying is seen/heard. Use a good hot battery so it spins over fast. If you're only getting a dripping/seaping or otherwise not getting a good "spitting" as the engine is spinning over, then the pump is defective and needs to be rebuilt--cost about $400-$650 or so depending on who does it and what all is needed. Now all this assumes you have a clean filter, clean fuel and no restrictions in the line from the tank.

Oh, I forgot to mention one other thing--when you dropped the pump back into the drive hub, the larger side of the coupling should be facing the engine when the engine is in the #1 timed position. If you didn't pull the drive hub, then this shouldn't be a problem. If you pulled the drive hub, then we'll need some more steps....

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Ron to Kevin

01-05-2004 16:28:50




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Ford 1801 Timing in reply to Kevin (FL), 01-04-2004 18:46:06  
Kevin, Your a SAINT. Have posed this question before and had several explanation, but now compares to your. Nobody really agreed on what to do first. Had a good agument going on for a while amongst the commentors...kinda funny now. Anyway, I ordered a manual called Ford 55-60 and a guy said I should get the I&T shop manual FO-20 also, I haven't had any luck finding it yet. You have any comments or added sugestion on the most useful manual for the tractor, (seeing as you have the same tractor). Do you have any pictures of your tractor that you can e-mail? I'm having trouble remembering if the hub came out with the pump or not. I'll keep thinking about it. Thanks for your reply, Ron rcma@dam.net Central Missouri

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geok

01-03-2004 16:42:20




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 Re: Ford 1801 Timing in reply to Ron L., 01-03-2004 15:10:48  
Be very careful using either on this engine. It is a converted gas engine. The crank has only 3 main bearings and is prone to break if abused. I still remember the FoMoCo service bulletin advising not to reuse a turned crankshaft when rebuilding and to use a new one in the place of it. I always use a torch to start diesels after a rebuild if they are slow to hit on their own. Aim a small flame toward the inlet on the intake manifold while cranking so heat can be drawn in. Can't help you with the timing. Seem like there were marks on the flywheel and behind a small inspection plate on the pump.

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Ron

01-03-2004 17:52:05




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 Re: Re: Ford 1801 Timing in reply to geok, 01-03-2004 16:42:20  
Nobody had metion it was a gas converted engine. It is a 172 cid 1801 industrial 4 cyl. It won't crankover if I broke the camshaft would it??? Ron ps. any ideal where I could find infor. about what you were talking about a conversion?



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geok

01-04-2004 06:03:29




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 Re: Re: Re: Ford 1801 Timing in reply to Ron, 01-03-2004 17:52:05  
The engine will turn over by the starter but depending where the camshaft is broken weither the injection pump and or hydraulic pump will turn with the engine. In the mid 1950s Ford took the 134(144), 172 gas engine design and built them in to diesels. That is why engine bearings are the same between them. Ford learning from their mistake designed a true diesel engine for the 1966 2000, 3000 and 4000 series tractors. Then they converted this engine design to gas. Since most diesels have intake manifold on one side and exhaust manifold on the other, to heat the intake on the gas conversion, engine coolant was circulated through it so it would run properly.

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RWK in WI

01-04-2004 05:48:23




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 Re: Re: Re: Ford 1801 Timing in reply to Ron, 01-03-2004 17:52:05  
What is meant is that Ford designed this engine as a gas engine then when there was a market they adapted the engine - block, bearings, crankshaft, pistons and all - to use as a diesel. A diesel has much higher compression / stress on parts than a gas engine so they weren't the strongest engine around. Because that engine started as a gas engine is is often said they were converted ( by Ford ) to a diesel. Don't worry it is not somebodys back yard conversion.
I hope this helps you.

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