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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Airline Pilot to Ag Mechanic???

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C. M. Allen

12-23-2003 09:12:13




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Your time will be very appreciated. I am currently looking to change careers and need a some help. I live in Denver, CO and work as a full time airline pilot. Since Sept 11, 2001 the lifestyle as an airline employee has drastically changed, and has left many pilots on the streets do to layoffs. I am looking into going back school at Owens Community College in Toledo, OH to hopefully obtain employment as an agricultural mechanic with a reputable business. I have been around farm equipment all my life while growing up. My problem is I really don't know much about this career. Can you please help me? Here are some questions I have:

-How do I get started in this field?
-What is the long term career like?
-What is the demand like for mechanics of this type?
-What does it take to get hired?
-What kind of competition would I have with no experience and an Agriculture Technician associates degree?
-What kind of trades would you recommend I study?
-What is the pay longevity like?
-What are the work hours like?
-Any other information will be helpful.

Thank you for your time.

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S. Conner

12-24-2003 08:35:32




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 Re: Airline Pilot to Ag Mechanic??? in reply to C. M. Allen, 12-23-2003 09:12:13  
I'm an industrial mechanic and have been for over ten years. Mostly what I work on are rolling mills. Hydraulics and bearings are probably the two main things I deal with everyday. The two jobs that will always be there are for nurses and mechanics. I think it's a wise decision to get into one of these areas if that's what you are interested in. The schooling will definately help down the road, especially to get your foot in the door for a potential job. You may not be able to write your paycheck wherever you go but there will always be a job somewhere. At one time I considered going to school to be a John Deere mechanic but the pay is lousy starting out. I decided to get an associate degree in industrial technology. I still love working on the old Deeres.

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Wayne

12-23-2003 19:55:52




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 Re: Airline Pilot to Ag Mechanic??? in reply to C. M. Allen, 12-23-2003 09:12:13  
As an equipment mechanic by trade I can tell you what I see and hear out there. I work mainly on construction equipment and cranes, but it seems to hold true for anybody I talk to no matter what they work on be it trucks, farm tractors, small engines, or whatever. First you need to decide do you want to be a mechanic or a "technician". A mechanic knows how to use his most important tool, his brain, to find the problem and what caused it and fix both, while a technician usually relys on the computer to tell him which part to replace and hopes it works afterwards. For a mechanic a degree of any type isn't mean much to an old school shop foreman. To them it just means your an "educated idiot". You may learn some mechanical and technical stuff in school, but if you have at least some background in mechanics, and most importantly are actually "mechanically inclined" I'd about bet that your background will make more difference than anything you can learn in a classroom. The main thing is the willingness to admit you don't know it all and ask questions and learn. Don't be afraid to tackle any problem put before you, remember they only make so many types of parts, it just depends on how you put them together as to what they do. If you can figure out the principle behind what a part is supposed to be doing then you can fix it. Now to actually answer your questions---The demand for GOOD mechanics is pretty high at least here in NC, there just aren't enough people really qualified to fill the openings. Don't expect to start out making much, I'd say average around here is $10-$13(starting) to $20+hr (with a good amount of experience). As for getting hired, a willingness to work hard, learn constantly and get dirty are top things you'll need to have. As for hours that will depend on what you get into. Most dealerships shops are gonna be "9-5" hours. If you get in the field, depending on the dealership, that can change. I work with my Dad and we do field work. During the summer months we always figure on at least a 10hr day just so we can finish up everything we have going. Sometimes we'll see dealership guys pack it up at 5,and sometimes their there til dark just like we are. Like I said some of it's the dealerships policys, and some of it is just the guys doing the work. If you want to work on the newer electronic controlled equipment, then some school is probably gonna be useful, but not right off. I'd sugest getting started, like you said, with someone reputable and actually doing the job for a while before going to school. This allows you to make sure it's actually what you want to do before you make the investment of time and money for school, as well as learning the basics "on the job", which is the best way to do it. After a few months of busting your hump maybe the dealership will be willing to pick up the tab and send you to some of the factory schools where you actually learn the newest electronic control systems, etc that are out there. The main thing, like I said is to be willing to learn and get dirty doing it. Working on equpment is hard physical work, and you have to love it to stick with it. If you want to become one of the new "technicians" and work on nothing but newer equipment then there is a place for you, but you'll always be competing with the new generation of technician. If you learn to be an old school mechanic I can tell you the competetion is slowly dying with each generation. I'm 36 so I have alot more years to go before I hand up my hat. With what I see out there, I know I'll always have a job for two reasons. First the new "technicians" don't seem want to think enough to work on the old stuff where your brain was the most important troubleshooting tool there was. If they can't plug it in their lost. It's like we're too "advanced" to remember how they used to do it, and how well it worked.... Secondly I'll always have work because the old equipment, that takes a real mechanic to work on it, will still be running when the new stuff is setting dead in a field or being recycled. I just heard the other day that Vulcan Materials was going back to the old cable operated front shovels in some of their quarries for this very reason. The new hydraulic machines were costing so much in downtime and maintenance in general that they weren't as economical to operate as some of the "educated idiots" (that replaced then with the newest machines)were tought in school that they would be..... Food for thought there.... I don't know about flying for an airlines, but flying is something I would love to have the oportunity to learn...I'll make a deal with you,come out to NC, I'll teach you mechanics and you can teach me to fly....
Seriously, this is all just my observations and opinion, I hope it helps you some with your decision.....Wayne

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C.M. Allen

12-24-2003 07:21:28




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 Re: Re: Airline Pilot to Ag Mechanic??? in reply to Wayne, 12-23-2003 19:55:52  
Everything you said makes real sence. Thanks for your imput. The truth is I would love to teach you to fly for your knowledge of mechanics.



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buickanddeere

12-23-2003 21:25:39




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 Re: Re: Airline Pilot to Ag Mechanic??? in reply to Wayne, 12-23-2003 19:55:52  
I have to take exception to your blanket statement that being educated means being an idiot. I've met and worked with people in many ocupations and there is a broad range ability in each. The pro builders of my house tried to run water 15" uphill to the drain. A person without formal training may know that when he does x,y & z the machine work. When x,y & z doesn't work then they throw parts at it and hope it does. If you don't know and understand basic physics,chemistry,electrical etc the world around you is a mystery. I know of a auto body person who is a master of his trade as long as nothing changes. He's illiterate however and has to have directions for new paint,thinners, equipment etc. He also walked right past the no smoking sign into a new flamable storage area with a lit butt in hand. Fortunately only his pride was wounded. And yes I've seen engineers who where clueless in the field and with equipment but could write up a storm. The rare type of person shops of all sorts want but can't find enough of, understand engineers and can make the equipment work as intended.

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Wayne

12-25-2003 00:16:26




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 Re: Re: Re: Airline Pilot to Ag Mechanic??? in reply to buickanddeere, 12-23-2003 21:25:39  
I didn't mean that everybody that has an education is an idiot. What I was expressing is that an education is only as good as the person who has it. Anybody can learn anything if they put their mind to it, it's a matter of having a natural ability to do a specific type of job as well as having the ability to apply what they learn in school and what is learned through OJT and meld it all together into something useful. Like you said if xyz doesn't work then many people just want to throw parts at it until it does work. That's what I see everyday from the colledge educated crowd. They don't have the real world experience to know that you can't learn everything in a classroom, but still think they know everything. If it isn't something they learned in a book, their lost, and it often seems like they have forgetten they have a mind to use as a troubleshooting tool also. That is a classic sign of an educated idiot. You don't have to have a formal colledge education to have the natural ability to learn and do a job and be good at it, and having a formal education with some type of degree to go with it is never going to be a suitable replacement for real world experience. I see companies everyday hire a newly graduated man to a position over an experienced longtime employee and I've seen it bite them in the a$$ too, especially in the equipment industry.--- We saw this scenerio on a crane we totally rebuilt 2 years ago. The educated, desk bound executive decided he was gonna make all the purchasing decisions regardless of the input from the field supervisors. He decided to save several thousand dollars and buy this new grease on the market. The sups told him it was no good in their application as soon as they used it the first time, but his education told him it was good grease because of the ingredients... As a result we had to go back into the machine less than a year after we had just totally rebuilt and rebushed it and again put new busings in it for the second time, to the tune of about $40,000. All because the grease wasn't any good. They changed back to the good stuff for a while afterwards, and now are bouncing around again because the guys behind the desk with the education don't know what the he-- they are doing..... It keeps us in business though.... Basically, if all you have is an education out of a book then you don't have much if you don't know how to apply it....You can give a dog an education, but if he can't apply what he learns then what good is he??? Like I said I didn't mean what I said to be taken as a blanket statement about education, I'm sorry you took it that way. Personally I don't have any type of degree, but I educate myself everyday reading books, surfing the web finding tech sites, etc etc., anything to learn anything that will help me do my job better or easier. As a result I usually learn something new everyday, and am a better mechanic for the experience. Maybe now that I have explained things more clearly you'll understand a little better what I was saying. Wayne

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Farmall Don

12-23-2003 12:07:59




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 Re: Airline Pilot to Ag Mechanic??? in reply to C. M. Allen, 12-23-2003 09:12:13  
I feel for you. Ya know I did everything I could when I was young to get away from the farm. Now I would do ANYTHING to get back to the farm. Working in the heavy construction industry isnt bad, there is a whole lot of former farmers working with heavy construction equipment here.



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Phil

12-23-2003 11:57:43




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 Re: Airline Pilot to Ag Mechanic??? in reply to C. M. Allen, 12-23-2003 09:12:13  
NOOOOO O.... .lol.. don't give up on Aviation.. As a Chief Pilot for a company flying an MU-2, I would advise that you look for a job in the corporate/fractional market. You just won't be satisfied leaving the flying behind. I have several friends in the same boat as you and they have all just decided to stick it out. Those that have left have come back. They just were not satisfied doing other jobs.

One of my close friends has even considered working for the national airline of the UAE (United Arab Emerities..sp?) They actually hire/prefere foriegn nationals at their airline. They are growing and have several new types of machines on order. If you are married.. might not be the best place to go, however, if single..might be a place to go as a career steping stone.. Money is good. Widebody experience with long legs is the norm. My friend has already interviewed with them. I have not had a chance to talk to him to see how it went.

If you are wanting to go back to school... then I would think about Heavy Equipment/Diesel Truck School or even look at getting your A&P. New Over the Road trucks are getting very sophisticated and complex. Good, well trained mechanics are in demand to repair these trucks. The trucking industry has experienced rapid growth these past years.

I myself have my Airframe and Powerplant ratings. While they did not land me my current position. They are a bonus as I do work on the Mits. and that in itself saves my company money. For those of you who read this post and are wondering what the heck is a MU-2.. well here is what it looks like.. This is actually the Company plane I have been flying the past 5 years.. (click on the link for photo)

Link

Anyway, look at other possible alternatives in Aviation. Once the bird bug bites you.. it is hard to get away from it.

Phil.. a fellow Bird Man....

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I Like Case

12-23-2003 16:30:02




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 Re: Re: Airline Pilot to Ag Mechanic??? in reply to Phil, 12-23-2003 11:57:43  
Phil, for Heavens sake get away from that MU-2 before it kills you!!!! They are as bad as helicopters>



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Phil

12-24-2003 09:16:03




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 Re: Re: Re: Airline Pilot to Ag Mechanic??? in reply to I Like Case, 12-23-2003 16:30:02  
Hehehe.... NAH! There isn't a dang thing wrong with that MU-2. I've been flying them for 5 years now and have almost 3000 hours in them. Flown most of the models.. Marquis, N, L, P and Solitare. Most of my time is in the J model. That is the one in the link. Short body models have thier own unique set of flying qualities compared to the long body, but both fly very nice.

Sure.. they have a bad reputation.. but the machine does not deserve it. Bad judgement/poor piloting techniques and the lack of basic understanding of the machine is what gave it the bad rap. Time was the the MU-2 was CHEAP. Still is. It is alot of performance for the dollar - most bang for the buck in its class.

The airplane is just unconventional enough in its design. That one needs to have a good understanding of how it operates to be proficient and safe in it. Back many years ago. Pilot proficientcy training was not mandatory by anyone. Most pilots flying the MU-2 got a few hours of dual from the person that sold them the machine and were sent off on thier own. (BAD IDEA.) When things would go wrong.. ie.. loss of engine thrust on one side.. people reverted back to what they learned/knew. Engine out techniques are not the same in the MU-2 as in regular multi-engine planes. The airplane need to be flown like a Jet and not the turbo-prop that it is. Keep those things in mind and you will do fine. These days you cannot obtain any kind of Insurance in one unless you meet some minimum time requirements and have attended some form of Formal School for it. Gone are the days of the 1500 hour pilots with 100 hours multi-engine flying them. You have to have some decent credentials or you won't be insurable. (This keeps out alot of the inexperienced, low time people who have the means to buy.. just not the skills to fly.)

Anyway.. there is nothing wrong with MU-2's. Just bad pilots.. Heck.. I used to fly an AeroStar 601P and other models of that breed for several years and once for a spell, flew a Cessna 411A for a couple of years. Call me stupid? Nah, just well educated on proper operation of the machines. If it has wings and is Airworthy.. I'm game.

Phil

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rustyfarmall

12-23-2003 11:38:51




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 Re: Airline Pilot to Ag Mechanic??? in reply to C. M. Allen, 12-23-2003 09:12:13  
Don't feel like the lone wolf with the lay-off thing, it is nation-wide, and has hit just about every occupation. My advice is to just hang in there, it's not any better anywhere else.



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buickanddeere

12-23-2003 10:48:21




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 Re: Airline Pilot to Ag Mechanic??? in reply to C. M. Allen, 12-23-2003 09:12:13  
Try the nuclear industry. While they prefer people already brainwashed by the Navy, aviation experience is ok. They want people who are particular and meticulous. Pay is good and you already have experience/patience dealing with some rules to the point of being silly or worse. Just avoid the non union sweat shops.



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Alvin n Ms.

12-23-2003 10:01:35




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 Re: Airline Pilot to Ag Mechanic??? in reply to C. M. Allen, 12-23-2003 09:12:13  
CM, go to other than ag. Competition is very fierce,and only crumbs are left. Much better in heavy trucks, large equipment hydralics ect. and THEY are a lot easier to work on because you are more likely to have better tools, manuals, ect. Take a look at helicopters. Ozark, AL. Fort Rucker. They have a training school also. alvinnms



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