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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

The suprising truith about motor oil !

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GG

09-10-2003 20:04:46




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Thought some of you might be interested in reading this. I don't know a lot about computors so I can only give you the web link( I guess) to this fascinating bit of information. It will be worth the trouble to type the link in. What do you think about this information? Scroll down the page to THE SURPRISING TRUITH ABOUT MOTOR OILS www.scuderiaciriani.com/rx7/oil.html




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Chris-se-ILL

09-11-2003 20:10:18




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 Re: The suprising truith about motor oil ! in reply to GG, 09-10-2003 20:04:46  
just my 2 cents worth..... .

I think the testing in this article is faulty! Testing on taxi-cabs is not a legitimate test as pertaining to an average consumers driving habits!

Cold start ups and short trips with some cool-down in between trips keep the engine operating temp below optimum. Also, there are factors that break down the engine oils lubrication factors other than just heat... blow-by gasses with particles of gasoline or fuel entering the crankcase area because of worn rings,, cold start up, excessive acceleration, poor ignition conditions, improperly tuned engine. Idling for long periods can cause some excess contaminates to enter the crankcase.

I have rebuilt many engines and a mechanic can tell when a customer is an avid oil changer! One young man's engine {327ci in a '66 corvette} was disassembled in the shop. The engine had 125K miles on the original engine... and it had rings busted in every cylinder (number 8 cylinder's top ring was busted in 13 pieces) because of his racing tendencies. But he changed his oil every 750 miles! The inside of that engine was "deposit free!" Not one sludge deposit, nor single bit of grime! The block and head castings looked as though the inside was new cast iron. Plus, there was only .010 to .012 wear on the top of any cylinder.

We change the oil in our veicles about every 3000 to 4000 miles. On tractors, it is about every 100 hours!

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Nolan

09-11-2003 10:24:03




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 Re: The suprising truith about motor oil ! in reply to GG, 09-10-2003 20:04:46  
Take it with a grain of salt. Remember, these engines were almost never shut down, never cold started, and inspected at a rather short interval.

The claim is made about how hard idling is on the oil. I've never found any documentation or evidence to support that claim.

No mention was made of the oil additive packages, particularly what happens to them over time. Essentially, they dissipate or get used up, and you're going without them from that time on if you go for the extended oil changes. This important point was rather glossed over.

My own observations on standard dino juice oils has shown that at about 5k miles the oil will rather abruptly become somewhat gummy in texture. Varnish buildup will substantially increase. Oil pressure will be reduced. Internal engine noise will be increased. These are not operating conditions I personally care for, so I tend to change my oil more frequently.

I am far outside of the Consumer Reports target, in that I expect my engines to last several hundred thousand miles without problems. I don't consider 60k to be reasonable life by any means.

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Kennyp

09-11-2003 13:05:49




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 Re: Re: The suprising truith about motor oil ! in reply to Nolan, 09-11-2003 10:24:03  
My Olds V6 will run 3000 miles and oil is only down maybe 1/8 inch. Try for 3500 and it will use a quart more. Something is wearing out or being used up. Oil is cheap..... .



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Teun Ydens

09-11-2003 09:49:57




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 Re: The suprising truith about motor oil ! in reply to GG, 09-10-2003 20:04:46  
New pictures on www.trekkerslepcoevorden.nl



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MT Mich

09-11-2003 08:03:30




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 Re: The suprising truith about motor oil ! in reply to GG, 09-10-2003 20:04:46  
I'm a powertrain engineer for one of the Big 3 (who shall remain nameless!) and there aren't really any surprises here. Auto manufacturers went to 5W30 (0W30 coming!) to reduce start up friction (engine wear and improve fuel economy, actually helped meet federal fuel economy stds.). Still functions the same at operating temps. There are many more brands of oil than makers. Ford (Motorcraft), NAPA, Murrays, insert your favorite store brand, do not make oil, they buy it repackaged from one of the few actual makers. No surprise they act similarly. So long as it meets the standards "SG" or "SH", it MEETS the standards. Most of these oils will go 10,000 miles easily under normal conditions (warms up enough to dry it out and normal dust conditions). Most manufacturers suggest 5,000 under normal conditions simply because surveys said most people were changing it then anyway, and it's a nice round number to keep track of!

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Trevor

09-11-2003 05:19:46




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 Re: The suprising truith about motor oil ! in reply to GG, 09-10-2003 20:04:46  
That is a very interesting page. I read about the differnces in oil and it kind of confirmed what my father and I have though. That is that high price oil is only really different in price.

I hope a lot of people read the page because the oil topic comes up here all the time. If you read his discussion on multi weight oils it is interesting to know that 5W-30 performs with the same properties as 10W-30 at high temperatures and high pressures. That is great news for those of us who live in a winter climate.

Definetly food for thought.

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dhermesc

09-11-2003 06:24:46




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 Re: Re: The suprising truith about motor oil ! in reply to Trevor, 09-11-2003 05:19:46  
High priced oil costs more because of advertising, kind of like a box of Wheaties. It costs more to have Tiger Woods picture on the box then the cereal costs that's in the box.



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Ben in KY

09-11-2003 06:46:13




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 Re: Re: Re: The suprising truith about motor oil ! in reply to dhermesc, 09-11-2003 06:24:46  
Along the advertising cost thing, I have wondered how much cheaper automobiles would be without the advertising costs. Auto ads seem a bit excessive to me. Of course that may be the only way to convince/brainwash people to believe they age getting a good deal when they pay 35K for a car.



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paul

09-11-2003 08:41:01




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: The suprising truith about motor o in reply to Ben in KY, 09-11-2003 06:46:13  
How many billions are spent on the cola wars advertising. When we get to the counter & ask for Coke (Pepsi) they say 'We only have Pepsi (Coke)? and we say 'Ok." - lotta good the billions in advertising does.....

--->Paul



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Hal/WA

09-11-2003 23:47:51




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The suprising truith about mot in reply to paul, 09-11-2003 08:41:01  
But Coke and Pepsi really do taste a lot different, at least to me. And Pepsi does not taste good to me. And the diet colas taste even more different than the sugared (actually corn sweetened) pops. I took the Pepsi challenge a number of times years ago and was NEVER FOOLED.

Remember the hassle The Coca Cola Company had when they changed their formulas to New Coke, which tasted more like Pepsi? I noticed that they changed back within a few months. They might as well have named the new beverage Edsel!

Oils have improved greatly over the years and supposedly all have to meet or exceed the specifications for the level of oil they advertise on their label or cap. I still don't use store brand oil, although it may be just as good as the name brands.

What I was always told was to pick a good brand of oil and stick with it, as mixing different brands could cause problems from incompatable additives. I have had very good results with Castrol and Valvoline over the years and curiously, they seem to also be brands that are often on sale. Even at full price, oil is pretty cheap.

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I Like Case

09-11-2003 21:19:38




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The suprising truith about mot in reply to paul, 09-11-2003 08:41:01  
If all they have is Pepsi I decline. Don't get me wrong-I like the taste but refuse to support Jeff Gordon:)



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dhermesc

09-11-2003 09:37:22




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The suprising truith about mot in reply to paul, 09-11-2003 08:41:01  
Actually the Coke Only or Pepsi Only sign is part of the advertising too. Fast food places sign national contracts with one or the other for exclusive account placement. Local distributors sign the same deals with single account or regional chains. Usually the vender "buys" the account with volume discounts and near or below cost pricing. More and more universities and even high schools are signing exclusive agreements to change buying habits at an earlier age. Very few of these contracts make the bottler money but they hope in results in life long customers.

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paul

09-11-2003 15:19:20




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The suprising truith about in reply to dhermesc, 09-11-2003 09:37:22  
Well actually that is why I was thinking of it - the local high school had such a contract, are in the process of renewing it, and it turns out they spent $25,000 on a new scoreboard be4 the new contract was signed, they will only get $38,000 over 20 years in return, and the contract got tougher, need to maintain a minumum student count, ban all references to other pop products (does this include what students wear???) etc. or they get nothing. In fact, the pop company may not bother with it at all now - the scoreboard was already put up, paid by the school board.

So a lot of people are asking questions. All that was wrong with the old scoreboard were 'some lights burned out' and a lot of questions about the money being spent be4 the contract was agreed to, and why the school should be in such contracts in the first place if there is so little pay-off and shouldn't they be more involved in educating kids about the 3 R's, not pop....

Turning into quite an interesting discussion, I don't believe that pop company is making any good publisity or life-long customers 'here'. ;)

I like Dr Pepper or Mt Dew, never cared for either cola. Don't care how they advertise it, I prefer my flavors, not the ad campaign.

Sorry for getting so long winded & off topic.

--->Paul

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