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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

question for tractor haulers

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novice

08-21-2003 20:28:03




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I have a short wheelbase F-650 and 24' gooseneck trailer, both with farm tags. I've been told I can haul 26,000# combined pkg weight (truck, trailer, load) w/o having a commercial drivers license. Are there any special requirements going into different states as to permits, etc if I stay below this weight??. I tried calling several state's D.O.T. but it seems those I talked to couldn't answer me clearly. Does a privately owned truck and trailer like this, not hauling for hire, have to stop at truck weigh stations or are those only for commercial 18 wheelers??

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john

08-24-2003 06:29:40




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 Re: question for tractor haulers in reply to novice, 08-21-2003 20:28:03  
well I stopped at our state scale last night to ask about your situation so as not to give you false info. I found out they do not allow interstate movement anymore with farm tags just 150 miles from your house now. so this takes you out of farm statis and into private carrier statis.with this you fall under all of the commercial vechial laws.you can get a 48 hour permit for the truck for each state for about $25.00 each, your problem will be your drivers license. since your rig has a rating of more than 26001 lbs you need a cdl. even if you drive around empty all day if your vechial is rated or capable of carring more than 26001 lbs you are counted or at least this is the way the scale man explained it to me. so I came home and looked in my own cdl book and I will type word for word and you draw your own conclusion. YOU MUST HAVE A CDL TO OPERATE ANY OF THE FOLLOWING COMMERERCIAL MOTOR VEHICLES (CMV)
A- A SINGLE VEHICLE WITH A GROSS VEHICLE WEIGHT RATING (GVWR) OF MORE THAN 26,000 POUNDS
B- A TRAILER WITH A GVWR OF MORE THAN 10,000 POUNDS IF THE GROSS COMBINATION WEIGHT RATING IS MORE THAN 26,000 POUNDS. hope this helps you out.if you know some one with a cdl that is willing to make this single trip for you than you can go that route. the phone number to find the closes COMDATA TRANSCEIVER SERVICES is 800-527-0665 or 800-888-9103. this is where you can get a tag permit for the truck.

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Bret

08-23-2003 07:26:02




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 Re: question for tractor haulers in reply to novice, 08-21-2003 20:28:03  
I'm a DOT inspector. If you aren't hauling in a commercial status, that is, for hire, then you aren't a Commercial Motor Vehicle. That means you aren't subject to the Federal Motor Carier Saftey Regs. Your State may however have diferent, ie- more stringent regs. Then you get into the licensing regs, which are a whole different ball game. The farm exemption is good for 150 miles. After 116 road miles/100 air miles you need a log book, and over 60 miles with a tractor and trailer you'll need a medical certificate. Once you're more than 150 miles from the farm, or hauling for hire you lose your farm exemption. If you're over the farm exemption limits you may well be subject to sections of the FMCSR, or not. This is why you get vague answers. There are gray area's and exemptions depending on the specific case. Generally speaking once you cross the 26,000 lb line you need a class B or with a combination with a trailer less than 10,001 lbs a class B, with a truck and trailer over 26,001 lbs GVWR or actual wt. a class A. Without my flow charts and books in front of me I don't dare give you specifics. My truck is filled with the books for this, and 75% of the problems we have out there is finding the right book at the right time so I can find the exemptions and whatnot. And remember you guys, it's not actual weight or registered weight- it's the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating/GVWR for the truck or trailer. You may never haul more than 8500 lbs on your 12,000 lbs trailer behind your 9500 lbs truck- but if it's in a commercial staus that 12,000 lbs trailer makes the whole rig a CMV and subject to the FMCSR. In a commercial status ANY vehicle over 10,000 lbs is subject to inspection, and no you don't have to have a violation to get pulled over. Each state has different tax requirements and there are farm exemptions. But it sounds like you want to haul a tractor to a pull or something and thats not farm exemption qualified. All I can say is stop at the weigh stations for sure, driving by gets you a ticket regardless of your CMV status. Also be aware that each state may have a different definition of "Farm" tag- in NY you can only operate within 25 miles of your farm on listed routes. Try calling the State Police in each State you want to travel to. Ask to speak to their Commercial Vehicle Enforcemnet unit guys. At least they can tell you the big problems you might hit. Good luck.

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john

08-25-2003 00:39:12




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 Re: Re: question for tractor haulers in reply to Bret, 08-23-2003 07:26:02  
----- ----- I'm a DOT inspector. If you aren't hauling in a commercial status, that is, for hire, then you aren't a Commercial Motor Vehicle. That means you aren't subject to the Federal Motor Carier Saftey Regs.----- ----
I THINK YOU NEED TO RE-READ THIS STATEMENT YOU MADE!! I DRIVE A CLASS 8 TRUCK UNDER THE PRIVATE CARRIER STATUS. WE HAVE NO ICC # AND CAN ONLY HAUL OUR OWN PRODUCTS. SINCE WE CAN NOT HAUL ANYTHING FOR HIRE I GUESS I CAN THROW MY LOG BOOK AWAY AND STOP SPENDING $75.00 FOR MY CLASS A CDL LICENCE WITH AN X ENDORCEMENT.THANKS I WILL REMEMBER THIS NEXT TIME THE DOT STOPS ME.

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Erik Peterson

08-23-2003 20:42:32




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 Re: Re: question for tractor haulers in reply to Bret, 08-23-2003 07:26:02  
Bret: Thanks for the info. I was planning to drive from just outside of Houston to St. Louis Mo, where I was to pick up a tractor I have purchased. My new goosneck weighs 6000# empty. The F-650 weighs about 12,000# and the tractor about 6000#. The whole package wt (truck/trailer/tractor) adds to 24,000 which is less than 26,000 limit so I am not hauling more than 26,000# and, although my rig is capable of it, I wont be doing it (trailer rated to 22,500#). Since the truck, trailer, tractor are all mine and its not a "for hire" job, I guess I am ok weight wise-correct??. The problem now is the 150 mile entry limit you mentioned. Do I need to buy regular plates or is it possible to buy some kind of permit for a one time trip??

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no name given

08-26-2003 17:24:57




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 Re: Re: Re: question for tractor haulers in reply to Erik Peterson, 08-23-2003 20:42:32  
The F-650 is a good size truck and might be over 18,000 GVW. In NY this needs something above a regular passenger car license. I believe the restrictions are 18,000 for the truck and 26,000 combined truck and trailer.



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john

08-22-2003 23:29:55




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 Re: question for tractor haulers in reply to novice, 08-21-2003 20:28:03  
this will depend on what states you plan to travel in. some like tn, mo, calif,can be a pain.some states may not honer or reconize your farm tag. I have only used farm tags in the south and have not had any problems. If the truck traier and comity hauled is in your name and is for use on YOUR farm then you can use your car license no matter what the weight with a farm tag, a driver employed by you needs a cdl for over 26,000 lbs.you are considered a private carrier so no icc number or special goverment hauling permit is required in any state. it is best to put your name or farm name on the door with the words NOT FOR HIRE. this can be on a piece of paper taped on each side of the truck. it has to be in about 2 inch letters.for a single trip you should not need a ifta sticker (fuel tax) but buy fuel used in a state in every state you cross just in case.stop at all scales you come to no matter what.better to stop and get the go ahead light than to run it and be chased down. you will be allowed 12,000 lbs on steer axle 20,000 on a dual tire single axle and 34,000 lbs on a tandum axle.I asume you have 20 inch tires on a rig this size.stay under 13 feet 6 inchs high and 8 feet 6 inches wide or you will need over sized permits WHOLE NEW BALL GAME!!!! try calling the scale house you plan to cross directly and ask them what they require as this is the officers that will site you but you should not have any problems. (if all this does not work for you then do like a real truck driver and go around scales using non scaled highways.JUST KIDDING)

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novice

08-23-2003 20:23:34




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 Re: Re: question for tractor haulers in reply to john, 08-22-2003 23:29:55  
Thanks John, appreciate the info, especially the wt per axle info.---Erik



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evielboweviel

08-22-2003 07:59:34




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 Re: question for tractor haulers in reply to novice, 08-21-2003 20:28:03  
officer told me last week in Ohio, Farm tags are only good for 150 miles from farm.



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Paul

08-22-2003 06:46:01




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 Re: question for tractor haulers in reply to novice, 08-21-2003 20:28:03  
from every state and every driver you will find different answers. but as I understand it farm plates are good anywhere as long as it is your stuff you are hauling.you can go any where in states(I think canada and mexico also part of nafta??) need a cdl if over licensed over 26,000 need all fuel permits(ifta) also if traveling more than 7,500 miles in a year federal gov going to want some heavy use tax.

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John (C-IL)

08-22-2003 05:37:00




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 Re: question for tractor haulers in reply to novice, 08-21-2003 20:28:03  
In Illinois and Indiana "FARM" plates are only good in the states they are issued in. If you intend to go interstate you will need the appropriate plate for your rig, from there most states honor the home state rules where you are licensed when you are in their state with a private use vehicle. In IL if you are over 8 tons you must stop at the weigh stations.



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sammy the RED

08-22-2003 02:07:38




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 Re: question for tractor haulers in reply to novice, 08-21-2003 20:28:03  
The Michigan DOT is not in charge of motor vehicles.

The Motor Carrier Divison of the Michigan State Police enforce the laws.



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JWC

08-21-2003 21:11:08




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 Re: question for tractor haulers in reply to novice, 08-21-2003 20:28:03  
In Mississippi a class D comercial license covers trucks up to 26000#s if no other endorsement is required. Trailers over 10000#s require a DOT license. The farm regulations are often limited to hauling your own farm products within a given radius of your farm. The weight enforcement officers have been known to come down hard on people crossing the limit with their gooseneck rigs in our area.



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Slowpoke

08-22-2003 17:50:56




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 Re: Re: question for tractor haulers in reply to JWC, 08-21-2003 21:11:08  
In California, all trucks except pickups must go thru the weigh station, operated by Calif Highway Patrol. A few sites have signs reading "Test Site, Two Axle Trucks Do Not Stop" Some trucks have bar codes read by cameras over the highway and may bypass the station. I don't know the reason.



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F20II

08-23-2003 22:22:07




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 Re: Re: Re: question for tractor haulers in reply to Slowpoke, 08-22-2003 17:50:56  
The reason some trucks bypass the scales when they are open is that they have "PRE-PASS". Pre-Pass is a little box that sits inside the truck on the window an is read by a sencor an atomated scales that are layed into the road bed. The truck passes over the scale's the sencor picks up the Pre-pass box which tells the scal master who the truck is (ie;company, trk unit, etc), if the weight master has no reason to either inspect the truck or look at it for some reason an the truck is not over weight on any axle or gross weight they give the driver a green light signal inside his cab which is located on the pre-pass unit an he or she drives by. If the scale master wants the truck to stop he sends a signal that turns on the red light inside the cab an thus the truck has to pull into the scale. This unit saves alot of time for both the scale masters an the drivers, it gives more time of scale masters to inspect trucks that need it an give drivers more time to complete a trip in the long run. Some trucks do not like these pre-pass units because it logs the time you cross that scale an down the road it can be determined if you are running legal or not by the scale master looking at the time you have passed his scale an the time you have passed the last or for that mater any other scale that logs the truck in. I run legal all the time, my company demands it, we run 48 states an train drivers so we run as a team in most case's, having the pre-pass saves us in some case's over three hours from coast to coast, so it a god sent to me :O) hope this helps you :o)

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