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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

People with NO respect!

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Jason

08-10-2003 13:52:43




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Im not one who likes to complain alot,but I was just wondering if anyone else out there has been experiencing the same as what I have. My complaint is people who don't seem to care about other peoples equipment at shows!! The last couple of shows I have been to I have witnessed people(kids in particular) climing all over the equipment like they were play ground equipment. I have no problem letting kids sit on my tractors if they would ask and sit on it like a human being. Most kids get on them and tugg,jerk,and pull on every thing they can get there hands on. It even makes me more up set when I see the parents letting them do it!! Today I guess you can call the old tractors "toys",but they are still equipment and they can be dangerous. And the way the world is today if there kid would get hurt on your tractor they would want to sue you. Just my 2cents. What do others out there think about it?

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GeeVee

08-17-2003 14:40:39




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 Re: People with NO respect! in reply to Jason, 08-10-2003 13:52:43  

With all the time and MONEY I have spent restoring my tractor, I want to keep it in the great condition it is. I rope mine off and put "keep off" signs up. I do not need scraches and such on my paint job. It is not just kids who are a problem. I have had people lean on my tractor (rings, belt buckles, etc.) while I am right there and have to tell them not to do it. I'm sorry, but that tractor is my pride and joy (it belonged to my father) and I am going to keep it that way. It is a show/parade tractor and people will have to deal with the way I show it!!

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Nolan

08-12-2003 05:45:20




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 Re: People with NO respect! in reply to Jason, 08-10-2003 13:52:43  
I agree with you. The following is not a counterpoint. It's just something on the wonderfull world of not doing restorations.

I've got an old unrestored Triumph that I take to the car shows. Sitting in the field of shiny jewels is my ratty old car. Some day, I'm going to make a "go ahead and touch it" sign or something like that for it.

I can't count the number of times I have watched people stop and study my car. Not the concours crowd, but real people. People who didn't know you really can just drive and enjoy something, without worrying about how pretty it is.

Anyone is welcome to climb in and see what it's like to view the world over an old wooden dash. I've had a number of people get out and start talking to me or their friends about the idea of getting something like my old Triumph because "gee, this seems like a lot of fun" and "I didn't know you could just drive one."

Other show folk tend to know me, and the car. So if I'm not around they are quick to open it up for people to look at and touch.

I've never had the car hurt this way, though I suppose eventually I may. The worse I've had is dirty foot prints on the seat from the little ones standing on it making voom voom noises while grinning over the steering wheel.

Unrestored show pieces are a neat world in their own right.

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rhudson

08-12-2003 05:25:03




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 Re: People with NO respect! in reply to Jason, 08-10-2003 13:52:43  
Hi Jason,
i don't think anyone has thought you're crazy, i don't think anyone has even disagreed with you. Nor do I think you have opened up a can of worms. I think it’s a healthy discussion about a problem that most people that deal with the public realize. i'm just pointing out that this is one thing, that in a million years you will never be able to correct, if you are waiting for parents to correct it. can't you just see it, three hundred years from now, someone will be writing into the antique flying saucer page talking about how the kids were playing all over the restored flying saucers, and why don't parents act like i want them to act. you know its going to happen. i'm just saying that if you want to deal with the problem, YOU or your club is going to have to deal with the problem ( I think that’s what a lot of those parents are looking for anyway, “please, someone else to deal with my kid for a few minutes“). cause you are never going to change kids or their parents, as a whole. i want to make it clear that i respect the works of others whether their own or purchased. i consider myself a craftsman of sorts. i don't let my kids play on others stuff. and i also am taken back when i see it happen. but its not just you, i see that stuff from wal-mart to the college i teach. I posed what I thought was a possible solution, distraction (I spelled it “destruction” until my spell checker get it) to other tractors or events more suited to kids. I would like to see someone write in with other methods of dealing with the problem. I’ve gotten at least one idea that I consider good from the discussion. Ok?

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CP

08-11-2003 14:51:07




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 Re: People with NO respect! in reply to Jason, 08-10-2003 13:52:43  
I tell ya what. I'm a little surprised how un-educated people are when it comes to stuff like this. I pretty much agree with Jason. If you spend a lot of money to have a tractor restored or even professionally restored, it's not cheap. That tractor now has a value given to it. All be it everyone has different values to put on someone else’s equipment and even their own but that doesn't give you the right to supercede anyone else’s value. I'm a strong believer knowing the value of something over the cost of it. But if I know the cost to restore that tractor is a very high. Then its value just got higher. Maybe Jason worked long and hard to have his tractor the way he wanted it. To show people his dedication for hard work and skill. Good for him. I don’t think any of us would like to have a brand new car, scratched, and dented by some person, intentially or otherwise. Face it, kids do things and not know they’re doing it. Some parents don’t value the education they can give their own child and expect the schools to do it for us. There were a couple of touchy-feely responses stating that it the kids don’t learn from it then it isn’t worth wasting my time over it. That’s the perfect time to teach respect for others property and discipline around it. They aren’t play toys and should never be educated as such.

I’m a little confused by the comparisons that everyone is tossing around. They really don’t add up. Jason is asking for info about the culture that parents are installing in their kids and not thinking twice about it. Sounds like he has his tractor in an open area were people can walk by and view the tractors, equipment, etc. Most times this stuff is un-attended as they have always been for years. Just because no one is around the tractor doesn’t give anyone the right to just hop on it and start messing with all the goodies. Knowledge is power. Now you have junior up on the tractor and he figures out that if you turn this switch and push this button the tractor may start and if left in gear (and most are), watch out. Remember, these are 50, 60 70 + year old tractors. Not many safety features. Why? They relied on Common Sense.

Here’s some simple common sense rules to follow:
1. ASK the owner before touching property that isn’t yours.
2. Give short precise instructions of what NOT to touch.
3. Educate the person (kid or adult)
4. Then have the folks take pictures.

Everyone’s happy. But don’t skip 1 and go right to 2, 3 and 4.

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Jason

08-11-2003 20:39:06




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 Re: Re: People with NO respect! in reply to CP, 08-11-2003 14:51:07  
Thanks for your coments. At first when I started this post I thought everyone was thinking I was crazy or something. I said I have no problem with people sitting on any of my tractors if they ask. I love to see the kids get up on there and have their picture taken by their parents. Heck some times if there is room I'll even take them on a little ride. I don't want to stir up a can of worms,but most of the people that seemed to have a problem with my thinking even said they don't have any "show" tractors. I bet they would feel a little different if they would have one that they put alot of time and $ into.

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Very Well Said

08-11-2003 15:06:05




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 Re: Re: People with NO respect! in reply to CP, 08-11-2003 14:51:07  
I like the way you think ! Couldn't have said it better.



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Greg Miller

08-11-2003 14:49:31




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 Re: People with NO respect! in reply to Jason, 08-10-2003 13:52:43  
since my tractor has a crank start, i remove the crank handle and put it in the house every time i put it away (no shed right now. only a tarp!). that way the neighborhood kids cant try to start it on their own. i even removed the mounted cultivators so that kids that do try to play on it wont fall off of the tractor onto the cultivators. we even had a problem with a neighborhood teenager that thought he could get away with siphoning gas from another guys Farmall H. he wasnt too happy when he discovered that he was siphoning and using gas in his car that had lead substitute in it.

you're right. in todays world, everyone is lawyer happy. and the sad part is that the parents who let their kids play like that at tractor shows wont care at all until their kid gets hurt.

and you better believe that, when my tractor goes to shows, the crank handle stays in the truck.

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markct

08-11-2003 09:27:26




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 Re: People with NO respect! in reply to Jason, 08-10-2003 13:52:43  
well personaly my whole view of this is that it is sad that people have gotten tractor restoring to the point of antique car restoring,where scratches,blemishes and the non oem type of sparkplugwires or whatever get people all worked up. i have never owned a shiny tractor, i dont think i ever even drove a shiny tractor, tractors were meant to be used not polished up like a corvette. im not saying that people dont disrespect things, or that parents dont let there children do stuff they shouldnt, i agree that that happens but its almost too bad that more people dont let kids sit on the stuff and play on it and not be such a grouch, to a little kid sitting on equipment is one of the biggest thrils they get. almost all the time when a friend with a 2 or 3 year old stops by my house the kid wants to look at the tractors, and the goats and ducks too of course, but i usualy am more than happy to pick them up and put them in the cab or up on the seat. they almost always love it, alot more than going to a tractor show where they can just look at the tractors, heck they can look at pictures of tractors in a book and get just as much excitment from that.

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'Vette Man

08-10-2003 18:38:40




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 Re: People with NO respect! in reply to Jason, 08-10-2003 13:52:43  
It seems as though if old tractors, cars etc. are displayed that kids should be welcome to see and learn from the exhibits. The bottom line is: -Some of todays parents have to be smarter than the kid to teach them right from wrong! It's not the kids, it's poor parenting.



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Bill

08-10-2003 18:53:01




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 Re: Re: People with NO respect! in reply to 'Vette Man, 08-10-2003 18:38:40  
I agree!!!!



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rhudson

08-10-2003 17:50:44




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 Re: People with NO respect! in reply to Jason, 08-10-2003 13:52:43  
well you are right of course. but can i get you to look at it another way. are you advertising your event as for the whole family? when maybe its not? i don't go to car shows, for this very reason. its no fun for the kids. and as far as i'm concerned, i'm not going to do anything with my family if its not fun/educational for the kids. we have a few tractor shows/pull around here, i don't let the kids play on any of the equipment without permission. so we don't spend much time at the area where the tractors shine like my mother's silverware (the kind for showin not using). its a lot more fun to look at a rust bucket up close than anything from afar. we all know that people disagree about how to raise kids, even my wife and i disagree about that. so you KNOW you're going to have problems with the general public. especially when they don't take your hobby as seriously as you do. heck, i love tractors, and i don't take tractors as seriously as you do. i admit i don't have a single shiny tractor, even the ones i make my living with. so, you're got to keep the kids away. the best way that comes to mind is to have lots of education, interesting, and fun things for them to do, or put up an electric fence, or Plexiglas box, or just put a age limit on admittance. Maybe I’m looking at this wrong.. But I think a tractor show IS for the kids, to show them what it use to be like, that includes the sounds and smells. If its not for them , tell me just who is it for?
I don’t know I just know my kids would rather see a rusty JD B pulling a hay ride so that’s where we spend our time. I want to make it clear that I appreciate the work of all the people that bring exhibits. But I also want to be clear that my family enjoys seeing a working H cutting wood, a smoking SMD threshing grain, its more real. I don’t mind my son’s hands getting dirty on the steering wheel of a tractor if he wants the chance (maybe of a lifetime) of sitting on a odd or old tractor (with adult supervision of course). If there is anything a kid could break on a tractor, I don’t know about it. The other problem, well you’re right there also, we have too many people and lawyers trying to hit the litigation lotto. I’m just saying we’re failing if we don’t make it fun for the kids.

Thanks for letting me speak and remember, it just may be my blood sugar out of kilter.

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kyhayman

08-10-2003 18:32:13




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 Re: Re: People with NO respect! in reply to rhudson, 08-10-2003 17:50:44  
I agree with you. Part of displaying something to the public is to expect the public to look (and touch), and kids to be kids. Most people will respect a "please keep off"; or "thank you for not touching" sign. Most of the folks I know around here would be offended if you didn't climb on. Maybe it's just different ways in different parts of the country but I love it when the kids sit in the seat and ask lots of questions. Maybe one of them one day will turn into a farmer, Lord knows there are too few of us left.

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Jason

08-10-2003 18:13:35




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 Re: Re: People with NO respect! in reply to rhudson, 08-10-2003 17:50:44  
I'll agree with you on having stuff for the kids(or any family member) to do,but I still think that if something isn't yours DON'T touch. Its true that there are very few things that could break on a tractor,but that is besides the point. Im a young man my self(22 years) and I have restored a few tractors for my self and others and it is nerve racking to watch a kid(that could care less about the tractor) do his/her thing to the tractor that you have spent hours apon hours restoring. I don't see why you have to man handle something to find it of intrest. Can't you just look? After I spend all that time painting a tractor I do not want to spend time buffing out a scuff mark or touching up a scratch that I didn't make. I was always told from day one when I was at a car show or tractor show to keep my fingers to myself. If I didn't I would hate to see the consequence from my parents. My whole point of all this is to make sure people and kids respect other peoples property no mater what it is or what condition it is in. Just my 2cents of course.

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Lil-Farmer

08-10-2003 18:41:20




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 Re: Re: Re: People with NO respect! in reply to Jason, 08-10-2003 18:13:35  
I don't have any old iron, except what I use, none for show.

My son and I do have a race car that we are pretty proud of and we do make the mall shows around the area in the winter months. Out of maybe 50 cars that will be at any of these shows, we are one of the few that allow kids and/or adults to sit in the car. We put the child in the car and watch what they do while in it, it is not unsupervised. We even take a digital picture and email to the people if they want. Everyone else will have rope barriers around their display to keep people away.

We did a show for the Make a Wish foundation and let me tell you it was most gratifying to see these kids with terminal illness's lined up waiting to get in the one and only car that would allow it. Sure, there were a few scratches when it was over, but a week of paint work wouldn't have put a stop to our letting people do something they may never have another opportunity to do.

Remember, these kids are the future of anything we do. If they have a bad experience (or uninteresting), when they are old enough to go on their own and take their kids, they probably won't show up at your show. I guess then you won't have to worry about it!

This was pretty long, so I suppose it's a nickle's worth.

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rhud, why didn't i think

08-10-2003 18:58:14




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: People with NO respect! in reply to Lil-Farmer, 08-10-2003 18:41:20  
What a great idea, the digital photo of a kid on an "anything". and the kids (and lets face it, the adults too) would love getting the photo in their email. offhand, it seems like a great way of getting them there again for the next show.



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Lil-Farmer

08-10-2003 19:14:35




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: People with NO respect! in reply to rhud, why didn't i think , 08-10-2003 18:58:14  
We have found the allowing of kids to sit in the car and the taking of photos and emailing them to the parents to be a very good way of building good will.

We will almost always receive a thank you by return email. Most people are not as bad as we make them sound, just have to get them involved in some way.



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paul

08-11-2003 10:35:16




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: People with NO respect! in reply to Lil-Farmer, 08-10-2003 19:14:35  
I guess I can see everyone's point on this. Good thread.

I went to a bunch of county demo derbies this past week. Lots of nice kids. But there were also a lot that stood on the fence (where they weren't allowed & blocked other people's view) and they just love grabbing the light standards and shaking them for all they are worth (see if a light falls of the pole, or burns out, I donno why?) and one young 4 year old girl right in front of me must have been to her first demo derby, every heat she stood on the bench right in front of me, her parents held her for a good view.

I was both excirted for her to see her first demo, but pretty disappointed I didn't get to see much at all of the demo - kid sure had a big head!

Anyhow, there is a whole crop of good kids with great parents, but the ones with no upbringing or supervision seems to be growing. Don't get it?

It wouldn't be so bad, but parents should be resonsible for their kids - I guess the laws have changed, and lawyers rule the roost, grabbing as much money as they can for no reason. That is the scary part.

A tractor show shouldn't be a free-for-all unspervised day care - some parents seem to feel it is? I think folks are talking about two totally different situations here, can't compare apples to oranges.

--->Paul

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Indydirtfarmer

08-12-2003 05:18:31




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: People with NO respect in reply to paul, 08-11-2003 10:35:16  
I can still hear my father explaining how he though it was "child abuse" to let kids grow up not knowing how to be a responsible adult. I guess that somewhere along the way, I caught on. And passed it on. I heard my son say something very simular yesterday. A very proud moment.



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Chris-se-ILL

08-11-2003 11:48:10




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: People with NO respect in reply to paul, 08-11-2003 10:35:16  
I too can see all the different opinions and experiences of those that posted to this thread. I do not "show" any antiques (I only farm with a bunch of them). My tractors are never polished (seldom washed) and are working tractors.

However, I did have a thought or two for those that plan shows, go to shows, and such...

How about putting a few "not-so-restored" tractors on display (with friendly volunteers that are knowledgable about tractors) to explain and interpret what the tractor is, does, works, functions... If insurance would allow... the public could set on the "not-so-good" tractors without the fears of scratches and scrapes. I think that if two identical tractors were setting side-by-side, one a show tractor (maybe roped off) and one a hands-on-display the public would become "advocates" for the collectors and for agriculture. Personal involvement (as opposed to a sterile environment) can do wonders for relations with the public. Creating "Warm fuzzies" are a great way to win "friends for agriculture." And the Good Lord knows we need all the friends we can win!

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farmallgod

08-10-2003 15:17:04




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 Re: People with NO respect! in reply to Jason, 08-10-2003 13:52:43  
Your absolutely right we have those engraved signs on our tractors that say in bold letters DO NOT TOUCH and people still do so don't worry your not alone.



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Tom

08-10-2003 15:14:03




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 Re: People with NO respect! in reply to Jason, 08-10-2003 13:52:43  
Jason, you are absolutely right. IF you give permission for the child to get on your tractor or other equipment, and injury results, there is a very good possibility that the parents will get a lawyer after you in a NY minute. And the sad part is, under the eyes of the court, you will be in a very weak position. Your lawyer will probably tell you it is wise to try to settle out of court.



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