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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

How much wieght?

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Kydirtfarmer

08-06-2003 04:04:39




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I am planning on taking the fluid out of my tractor tires, and going with cast wieghts, WHEN I NEED THE WIEGHT. Too much bother if a tire gets a flat.... Most of what I do doesn't require all the pounds, and it'll be easier on the truck and trailer. Here is where I need help. I am removing fluid from 16.9/30,s. They are full to just over the top of the rim. When I remove that, what will I need in the form of cast wieghts to equal the same. I will most likely take off 200 to 300 pounds, even with the wieghts. (Got too much on the tractor now)

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Tom

08-07-2003 13:16:18




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 Re: How much wieght? in reply to Kydirtfarmer, 08-06-2003 04:04:39  
Everyone around here has gotten away from the calcium in tires; too much hassle and risk of rim problems. Most of us use water and anti-freeze mix; good balance of weight and maintenance. Some use the H2o+antifreeze on tubeless and some want tubes. If your wheel is painted in good shape it can run with the mix and does not hurt it. I personally prefer to use the tubes. Don't overfill - set the tire up straight and level, turn valve stem about 2 inches below top level of the rim. This gives good field ride, good road ride, good traction, good protection of rims. My 2 cents.

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Kydirtfarmer

08-07-2003 04:45:18




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 Re: How much wieght? in reply to Kydirtfarmer, 08-06-2003 04:04:39  
O.K. Back to me again. I guess that I should be more specific about my situation. The 2440 was on a scale last night. 7385lbs. (With full fuel tank). The tractor is around 5350. Add for a roll bar, and canopy, as much as 600lbs of front wieghts (at times), and what figures out to be about 1535 lbs. in fluid. (767lbs. per wheel.) Now. The tractor is going to be used in a number of ways. Primarily to run a 7' tiller, a 7' bushhog, and to pull a Brillion seeder. That is the primary "focus" of the custom work I do. In it's "spare time, it will help out on the farm. It will cut and rake hay, bushhog, and a few weeks a year, pull a 4 row planter. (No-till, This is where the wieght MAY be needed)(JD 4x30" w/ liquid fert. saddle tanks on the tractor.) Except for pulling the planter, it is replacing a 46 year old, 33 HP, MF50. That tractor is about 5000lbs. as we used it. It NEVER had any trouble doing what was asked of it. We have 2 more tractors that are bigger than the 2440,(4020, and 4440), AND, the 2440 spends a great deal of it's time on a trailer, moving from job to job. It would be nice if it was lighter. With 2 or 3 rear wheel wights on each side, and the fluid gone away, I would still get a good 5600 to 5800lbs. I know about the ride and the air pressure part. I needed the higher horsepower, but not the larger, heavier tractor for my work. (Golf course construction/lawn building) I'll let you all know how it works out. The fluid is being pumped out of the first tire as we speak. Thanks for all the input. Bill

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Ed

08-07-2003 10:12:00




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 Re: Re: How much wieght? in reply to Kydirtfarmer, 08-07-2003 04:45:18  
I still don't understand the need for the extra weight.

It looks like you have two perfectly good tractors for heavy tillage and this one for when you need a lighter tractor.

Corn planters pull rather easy and the saddle tanks will give you all the weight you want or need.

3 point hitch mounted plows should work fine as they need the weight up front. Draw plows could justify the weight but that's where your other two tractors can help out.

A lot of guys are putting anti-freez in the tires in place of salt. It's lighter than salt less but dosen't rot out the rims.

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Kydirtfarmer

08-07-2003 11:03:39




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 Re: Re: Re: How much wieght? in reply to Ed, 08-07-2003 10:12:00  
Fluid out, wieghts off, full fuel, and ready to work; 5449lbs. 600 lbs. of front wieghts. (Left the 80lb base wieght) That made for 1331 lbs of fluid wieght. I have 4 JD wheel wieghts, if needed. (If I think they're needed, they'll stay on) That would put me in the nieghborhood of 5900 lbs. (900lbs heavier than the tractor it's replacing) So, the answer to my first question, how much wieght in a 16.9/30 tire filled with fluid? 665lbs.

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kydirtfarmer

08-07-2003 11:13:51




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: How much wieght? in reply to Kydirtfarmer, 08-07-2003 11:03:39  
A quick follow-up on my own follow-up. The wheel wieghts are 150 lbs. With a 5449 lb tractor, I can add 600 lbs to the rear and 600 to the front, giving me 6049, and 6649. Sounds like a good wieght for a 60 hp tractor. We have a small hayfield that we are going to plow under. I'll see how it does with a set of 3x16" 3pt plows. It'll never see that in "normal life"



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Robert in W. Mi

08-07-2003 15:11:14




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How much wieght? in reply to kydirtfarmer, 08-07-2003 11:13:51  
Yes your tractor is heavy, but is it balanced right??? Just because it's heavy doesn't mean the weight is where you need it. I guess "you" will have to figure that one out. Robert



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kydirtfarmer

08-08-2003 04:38:09




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How much wieght? in reply to Robert in W. Mi, 08-07-2003 15:11:14  
With any impliment that ever gets hooked to this tractor, it doesn't need ANY front wieght. The only time I ever use them, is when we happen to be using a plow. I have 3x16", and 4x14" mounted plows. We VERY RARELY ever use them. The tractor is more than heavy enough, and balanced very well, in its "stock" form. It is just too heavy for its size. With the fluid out, and the front wieghts off, the tractor feels the same. I moved 2 round bales last night, and didn't see anything wrong with the setup. In nearly all the things we will do with this tractor, the job it's doing will provide significant wieght to the tractor, or it's all pto work.

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ed

08-08-2003 10:31:03




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How much wieght? in reply to kydirtfarmer, 08-08-2003 04:38:09  
I think I would just remove the fluid and leave it at that.

I use 1,000lb of suitcase weights on the front of my 70hp tractor to pull a 3-16 rollover plow and no fluid in the rear tires or wheel weights. The tires rarely slip. If they do I just lift the plow a little and have all the weight I need.

Oh, I'm using 13" tires in the back and 7.50's on the front plowing in thick clay type of soils.

The front weight is to keep the front end down when picking up the plow and for general stability. With a 3 point hitch plow with the tractor moving all of the benifit plus some is transfered to the rear wheels. Think of a pry bar lifting something up - that 600lbs you have on the front is acting like a lot more.

I also pull a IH 37 8" disk with new blades all the way down with our wheel slipage or problem. I can even pull a 14' disk & grain drill (only down enugh to level the field) - wheel slipage isn't the problem HP is

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paul

08-07-2003 08:48:37




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 Re: Re: How much wieght? in reply to Kydirtfarmer, 08-07-2003 04:45:18  
With the explination, you won't need to bother getting wheel weights. I pulled a 4 row planter with granular with a Ford 1720 this year. With liquid fert on your tractor, it'll pull fine.

You aren't doing any land prep stuff that needs the weight. You don't have a loader on it. Only thing would be if you use a sickle bar mower or the like on hills, wheel weights help stablize that.


Ok, did you have tubes in it? You might have wanted to replace the tubes. You wo't notice the small leaks putting salt on your rims.

If it didn't have tubes, dismount the tire, liberally flush off the salt. With only a few drops of fluid & lots of air, now you can have a rusting problem.

--->Paul

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george md

08-06-2003 15:57:39




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 Re: How much wieght? in reply to Kydirtfarmer, 08-06-2003 04:04:39  
I have some charts of tire volume and calcium

weight. 16.9/30 should hold 73 gallons , fluid

treated to -12 deg weighs 10.05 lbs / gallon .

When I do the math it says 730 + / tire . There

is nothing more miserable than a tractor without

enough weight, and I can assure you that you will

get real tired of handling wheel weights , leave

the fluid in .

george



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kyhayman

08-06-2003 12:33:21




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 Re: How much wieght? in reply to Kydirtfarmer, 08-06-2003 04:04:39  
Best of luck with this. I had a 7710 Ford with radials and not fluid. Did great, didn't even know the tires were empty until I tried to pull a wago load of roll bales up a frozen hill, oops. Couldnt stop it either. It also rode really rough. Put fluid in the tires and much improved. Later put bias plys on and the ride got even better. Not sure where you are located but they guy that does mine is very reasonable on his farm calls to repair tires. He'sin Harrodsburg, never longer than the next day and a $100 bill gets the farm call, and the new tube with a little change. 1200# of iron will run about $600. That will buy 2 new rims and pay for 4 flats fixed. Anxious to hear if you like it. Best of luck.

David

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Rod F.

08-06-2003 15:11:30




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 Re: Re: How much wieght? in reply to kyhayman, 08-06-2003 12:33:21  
Just out of curosity, what kind of radials were you running that were rougher than bias tires? I had Dyna Torque II bias on my 7710, and will never go back to them, or any other bias on the rear. Now have Firestone radial all traction 23 degree. Ride better, pull better, and wear far far far better. There was just no comparison.

Rod



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buickanddeere

08-06-2003 20:31:24




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 Re: Re: Re: How much wieght? in reply to Rod F., 08-06-2003 15:11:30  
I agree the tread pattern is the main factor. I have a set of 16.9x30 Firestone All Traction Field and Road bias with the long bar/short bar on a 4500 lb tractor. Real tooth loosening shakers with modest loads on hard ground, fair on the highway and annoying but liveable pulling heavy loads in loose soil.



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kyhayman

08-06-2003 16:56:02




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 Re: Re: Re: How much wieght? in reply to Rod F., 08-06-2003 15:11:30  
They were Michilans. Really good tires and pulled great but rode terrible (esp. on the highway). When I added 100 gallons of water and 250 # CaCl to each it got tolerable. Had a split come up in a sidewall so I replaced them, set Titans cost less than 1 Michilan radial so I changed.Ride got even better.



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Rod F.

08-06-2003 19:34:59




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: How much wieght? in reply to kyhayman, 08-06-2003 16:56:02  
I looked at the Bibs too. Awful expensive around here, and not many dealers. You had the ones with the wide spacing between the bars? I forget the series name, but a real mud tire. The 23 degree Firestone radial is spaced much closer, making it smoother. I also have a set of Titans. 18.4 x30. They ride decent....better than a Dyna slip. Pull fairly good too. But they are the first tire I ever saw rupture from the inside. Not impressed with the casing. Seems poor like the Armstrongs that came before. But that might just be an anomoly in my tires. I never hear much about them one way or the other. Take care.

Rod

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ed

08-06-2003 09:54:18




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 Re: How much wieght? in reply to Kydirtfarmer, 08-06-2003 04:04:39  
what are you doing that requires the weight.

If it's a loader that needs the weight a 3 point hitch weight box might be easier.



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kydirtfarmer

08-06-2003 10:20:59




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 Re: Re: How much wieght? in reply to ed, 08-06-2003 09:54:18  
ed, I need the wieght for the rare occations when we plow. I do a good bit of custom work. Every year, someone needs a few acres plowed. I plow about 35 acres of my own. For the other 95% of the tractors use, the wieght is just dead wieght. I am going to have the tires taken off the rims, (Fluid removed first), then clean and re-paint the rims. Then new tires and tubes. NO MORE RUST. I'll put about 600 pounds of wheel wieghts on, whenever the plow gets used. We plowed some ground with the tractor, with no wieght added. It pulled it OK, but spun a few times in the tough spots. I think 400 lbs. should do the trick.

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Robert in W. Mi

08-06-2003 18:36:31




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 Re: Re: Re: How much wieght? in reply to kydirtfarmer, 08-06-2003 10:20:59  
Mu 16.9x30's have 750 of ca per side. Your going to take out 1500 pounds of ca, and add 400 pounds of iron????? ????? It's going to be a huge change!!

I've never replaced a rim yet, BUT, i do wash my rims with dish soapy water if i have a flat!! The ca will NOT rust the rims if it doesn't touch them, or you wash it off the rims with soapy water when you have a flat!!

Robert



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Shep Va

08-06-2003 12:16:24




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 Re: Re: Re: How much wieght? in reply to kydirtfarmer, 08-06-2003 10:20:59  
You might be suprised, I tried taking the fluid out of one of my tractors rear tires too and found that even for small jobs that the tractor would spin out. Like you I thought the tractor was overweight and I was having trouble with a leak at the time, so I just told the tire guy to take it out.

I was trying to pull a loaded haywagon up into the barn up the barn bridge, a job the tractor could easily do with the fluid in the tires, but without the fluid and a higher psi in the tires, it was all the tractor could do to get the wagon in there spinning and digging. Also pulling a haybine or manure spreader in the field, as you go down a hill and turn the back end breaks loose a whole lot quicker and you will be steering out of a slide in a hurry. I think you will find that you will want the fluid back after you run it a while.

I run 10 tractors on our farm, and they have anything from Radial tires to cracked 30 year old tires and all of them run CaCl in them to keep the rear ends on the ground.

Do I have problems with rust on the rims?? Sure, but I just have the rims replaced with the tires every so often and keep them washed off when a tire leaks, I mean $175 for a rim to go with a $750 radial tire is a small price to pay for having to lug wheel weights on and off and trying to keep them tight, and loosing traction all the time.

Lots of people dont like fluid in the tires, but after running tractors both ways, the safty and performance of a tractor with fluid far outweighs the negative aspects the fluid has in my mind.

Just my 2 cents, I think you will want the fluid back once you drive it a while without it.

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kydirtfarmer

08-06-2003 07:45:00




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 Re: How much wieght? in reply to Kydirtfarmer, 08-06-2003 04:04:39  
Thanks for the help. I'll go with the 1200lbs estimate. The tractor is WAY heavier than it needs to be. 90% of what this tractor does, it doesn't need the wieght. Mowing and raking hay, bush hogging, pulling a 4 row planter, and a 6' tiller. I have a 60hp, JD 2440. It wieghs in at around 5300lbs. Currently, with the front wieghts and the fluid in the tires, we're talking near 7200lbs. Too much! I plan on taking the fluid out of the tires, and adding 2 wheel wieghts on each side. The front wieghts are an easier fix. Just take them off, and leave the 80lb base wieght. That should put me in the 5900lb range.

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JWC

08-06-2003 10:20:20




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 Re: Re: How much wieght? in reply to kydirtfarmer, 08-06-2003 07:45:00  
Unless you are pulling a no-till planter you have not listed any uses that should require any added weight. Which specific uses do you feel will reqire added weight? The best answer of what you need would be to drain the tires and try the implements with no added weight.



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paul

08-06-2003 05:38:25




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 Re: How much wieght? in reply to Kydirtfarmer, 08-06-2003 04:04:39  
I hope you report back with the results, after trying it for a while.

1000 lbs plus of cast weights is too much bother too. :)

--->Paul



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Deas Plant.

08-06-2003 05:18:40




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 Re: How much wieght? in reply to Kydirtfarmer, 08-06-2003 04:04:39  
Hi, KY. You are probably looking at around 60 gallons per tyre approx., at 1 # per gallon. Ball park figure: 1,200 #.

It is worth bearing in mind that you will be unlikely to get the same traction out of even the equivalent weight in wheel weights because you need to inflate the tyres to a higher pressure with wheel weights than you do with tyre filler. This means that the tyre will not have as big a 'footprint' at the higher pressure with the weights.

One of the big 'plusses' of being here in Australia with our milder climate is that you mostly don't need cal-chlor or other corrosives in water filled tyres so you can run tubeless tyres filled with plain water with a bit of corrosion inhibitor and repair any punctures with tubeless repair kits. I am not an expert on such matters but I'd be surprised if there wasn't a combination ani-freeze/corrosion inhibitor that you could add to plain water filled tyres even in your climate and go the same way.

Just a thought.

You have a wonderful day. Best wishes. Deas Plant.

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jake

08-06-2003 08:22:59




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 Re: Re: How much wieght? in reply to Deas Plant., 08-06-2003 05:18:40  
Deas Plant we have a no rust replacement for the chloride, it's a by byproduct of sugar beet refining but the cost is high at $2.50 per gal.



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howster mighty fine

08-06-2003 04:37:04




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 Re: How much wieght? in reply to Kydirtfarmer, 08-06-2003 04:04:39  
just from memory, we used to use 55 gal drums to hold calcium when changing tires. a 16.9 x 30 would take two drums = 100 gallons, at roughly 10 lbs per gallon that would be 1000 lbs per tire. It is hard to add that much weight with iorn.



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Dana

08-06-2003 07:30:51




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 Re: Re: How much wieght? in reply to howster mighty fine, 08-06-2003 04:37:04  
Maybe this will help.


http://www.tractorsmart.com/Farm_Tractor_Liquid_Tire_Ballast.htm



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