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'American Farm Tractors of the 60's, a poor quality book', revisited

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Dsl

01-12-2003 12:57:58




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The caption text on page 130 for the Oliver 2050/2150(my favorite tractors, and I have one of each, FWA's) stating that they had '478-cubic inch Caterpillar V8' engines is wrong--they had 478 cubic inch Hercules sixes. That John Deere '5020' on page 37 has GOT to be a 4020, because it's on 38 inch rears, and that RC WFE gives it away. It's gotta be a turbo job, too, because there's no way a stock 4020 is going to run away with that load.

Some of the Olivers pictured are very poor examples of what the tractors really did look like. There are all sorts of light and decal additions to some of them, and two 1850's and a 2050 & 2150 are shown with 55 Series grilles mounted on them, and a bunch of the Olivers have incorrect ROPS & canopies, etc. Custom touches are fine for a personal tractor, but not for a historical reference, which is what this book supposedly is. On page 145 there is a picture of a nice enough Cockshutt 1650 Western(the wheel weights shouldn't be red, because it throws off the colour scheme), but the authors call it 'extremely rare', which it isn't; they were very popular in the Canadian Prairie Provinces, and are still easy enough to find today.

The chromed IH 806 'Turbo' on page 50 is a beautiful custom job, but certainly not an accurate representation of what the tractor originally looked like, and that totally custom-built John Deere '5050' on page 38 didn't even belong in the book.

I shouldn't be so picky, but too many inexperienced people are in the tractor book flood these days, and they aren't equipped with the historical knowledge to pick these things out, and maintain the historical correctness of their publications. The photography in this book is second-to-none, but as a historical reference, it leaves a lot to be desired.

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Wade

01-13-2003 18:26:45




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 Re: 'American Farm Tractors of the 60's, a poor quality book', revisited in reply to Dsl , 01-12-2003 12:57:58  
For the record John Deere did make a row crop 5020 starting in 1967.The 1966 models were all standards according to the book I have ,if this is true or not I don't know ,but what I do know is they did make a row crop 5020. I have spent many hours on one . It had 38 inch tires ,flat top fenders,and adjustable row crop front end.I don't know what year it was though.



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JWH

01-13-2003 08:10:54




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 Re: 'American Farm Tractors of the 60's, a poor quality book', revisited in reply to Dsl , 01-12-2003 12:57:58  
What you have to understand about most of the books published by Motorbooks is that they don't give a tinker's damn about accuracy or anything else---it's all about M-O-N-E-Y. Motorbooks has a couple of good authors---Gay Fay and Randy Leffingwell come to mind, who actually do research and do their best to be accurate. Motorbooks has a number of authors who seem to: A. Not care if their book is accurate or not, as long as it has their name on it, or: B. Don't do any research of their own, but pirate the work of people who DO research, and still manage to get it wrong.

Motorbooks depends on people who don't know anything about tractors but buy tractor books for someone who's interested in them-----"Let's get this one for Uncle Harry for Christmas, look at the pretty pictures." That's the market Motorbooks depends upon.

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newgen

01-13-2003 07:42:08




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 Re: 'American Farm Tractors of the 60's, a poor quality book', revisited in reply to Dsl , 01-12-2003 12:57:58  
I havn't seen the book, but if Rod Beemer had anything to do with it I can about imagain. I made the mistake of spending good money on his book about the John Deere new generation tractors, and if this one has as many inacuracies as that one does I agree with the majority here. I don't claim to be an expert or an authority, that's why I don't write tractor books!



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JD70Jim

01-13-2003 06:50:24




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 Re: 'American Farm Tractors of the 60's, a poor quality book', revisited in reply to Dsl , 01-12-2003 12:57:58  
Well, this is, after all, a MOTORBOOKS publication. None of their books are ever really ACCURATE about much of anything,

The comments about the tractors: I feel that a picture, published in a book purporting to be a "real" historical reference, something you can use to check for "historical accuracy" should in fact have pictures that are correct.

Beautiful CUSTOMIZED tractor pictures should not be used if they are to be passed off as "ORIGINAL".

You see it all of the time, I have a nice, commercially available framed poster of a late styled JD "B" with a yellow seat on it.

I know better, but when some 17 year old kid, restoring his FFA project sees that picture, is he going to think that a yellow seat was original? Probably. It is the same with that nice "CUSTOM 806 TURBO" in the book.

The "correct police" should stay away from the tractors at shows if they have to comment on the occasional faux-pas directly to the unsuspecting owner. But in this case, the publishers of the book SHOULD have to hear and read the bad reviews of their work.

Someone who wrote a "historical" book purporting how the south won the Civil War wouldn't get any respect either, and in this case---Misters Peterson and Beemer won't get much either! I'd say that these folks OUGHT to do a major revision of their book, now that the opinions are in!

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AceS

01-13-2003 04:58:10




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 Re: 'American Farm Tractors of the 60's, a poor quality book', revisited in reply to Dsl , 01-12-2003 12:57:58  
You are 100% right if people don't know what they are talking about thet should not right about it



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Dave in Mo

01-13-2003 04:47:55




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 Re: 'American Farm Tractors of the 60's, a poor quality book', revisited in reply to Dsl , 01-12-2003 12:57:58  
If you think that book is bad, can you just imagine how bad the daily newspapers and periodicals are for accuracy?



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JMS/MN

01-12-2003 22:33:52




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 Re: 'American Farm Tractors of the 60's, a poor quality book', revisited in reply to Dsl , 01-12-2003 12:57:58  
I don't think there is any reason to apologize for expecting a book to be accurate when it is depicting history of tractors or anything else. I noticed mistakes in it as well in regard to tractors that I have knowledge of (identifying a Case as an AC), as well as others. I've bought books that show tractors that are not accurately restored and it certainly diminishes the historical value of the book. The publishers need to be more careful of what they are trying to represent as fact. If a writer is not accurate about what I know as fact, why should I believe him about what else he is telling me?

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Scott Green

01-12-2003 20:04:50




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 Re: 'American Farm Tractors of the 60's, a poor quality book', revisited in reply to Dsl , 01-12-2003 12:57:58  
And it's getting worse and worse. Just grab the money and run. Who cares if it's right or wrong , quality or cheap , etc.. I'm going to stop at that. Starting to turn my stomach already. Yes , I agree. If a reference book is being pushed on to the public , it should be accurate. A TYPO is one thing. It happens. But this sounds to me like more of todays typical ways.



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TP from Central PA

01-12-2003 17:01:09




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 Re: 'American Farm Tractors of the 60's, a poor quality book', revisited in reply to Dsl , 01-12-2003 12:57:58  
I like that book, but I have also noticed acouple of flaws in it. I still liked reading it.....But I also like correct pictures from the era too...



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Steven@nd

01-12-2003 16:15:41




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 Re: 'American Farm Tractors of the 60's, a poor quality book', revisited in reply to Dsl , 01-12-2003 12:57:58  
Thanks for backing me up. I agree that "correct police" can get out of hand, but this book represents itself as a reference to what is correct and/or actually produced in the 60's.

On the other hand, there are excellent reference books available, just a shame that the bad books have to be weeded through first.



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ron

01-12-2003 15:24:31




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 Re: 'American Farm Tractors of the 60's, a poor quality book', revisited in reply to Dsl , 01-12-2003 12:57:58  
Buying a book that mis-represents the truth is no different than anything else. Somewhere down the line these books are gonna be all thats left about these old tractors. The old folks that used them are gonna be gone and maybe forgotten. The book needs to be accurate, not for us that know better but for the folks after us that don't. just my opinion.



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JD9400

01-12-2003 15:09:38




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 Re: 'American Farm Tractors of the 60's, a poor quality book', revisited in reply to Dsl , 01-12-2003 12:57:58  
Some 5020s where sold with 38" rubber and row crop front ends.



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DP

01-12-2003 13:59:01




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 Re: 'American Farm Tractors of the 60's, a poor quality book', revisited in reply to Dsl , 01-12-2003 12:57:58  
Good to see you on board Dsl! I don't have any tolorance for the correct police, but I'll have to side with you on this. What a fellow does with his tractor should be up to him, but when a fellow condences a book of knowledge, and sells it to the public, I expect more accurate information. I have a couple books that I bought years ago with misinformation in them. It has been years since I've opened any of them. Kinda takes all the enjoyment out of the reading if you know what I mean.

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Dsl--thanks DP

01-12-2003 14:49:53




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 Re: Re: 'American Farm Tractors of the 60's, a poor quality book', revisited in reply to DP, 01-12-2003 13:59:01  
I ain't the correct police, and think a fella has every right to do what he wants with his (car, truck, tractor, airplane, Lunar Lander, whatever) but I'm a stickler for research and accuracy when it's to be represented as historical. How's a 16 year old kid gonna know what something really did look like in the 60's--or whatever decade--when he wasn't there? The Titanic wasn't sunk by a torpedo, and The Klondike Gold Rush wasn't about web domains.

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Steve from Tn

01-12-2003 15:10:18




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 Re: Re: Re: 'American Farm Tractors of the 60's, a poor quality book', revisited in reply to Dsl--thanks DP, 01-12-2003 14:49:53  
I agree. This is not someone calling a brush hog a "Bush Hog". Historians should give as accurate accounts as possible. If the tractors have been customized, we should be told that they are not originals.



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Give it a rest

01-12-2003 13:45:19




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 Re: 'American Farm Tractors of the 60's, a poor quality book', revisited in reply to Dsl , 01-12-2003 12:57:58  
I though maybe we could get away from the correct police here at least.



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F14

01-12-2003 14:53:16




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 Re: Re: 'American Farm Tractors of the 60's, a poor quality book', revisited in reply to Give it a rest, 01-12-2003 13:45:19  
I'm with you on banning the Correct Police here, and at tractor shows.

But when I shell out good money for a reference book, it had better damned well be ACCURATE, or I'm gonna get my money back!

JMHO, YMMV



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Les...fortunate

01-12-2003 13:09:38




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 Re: 'American Farm Tractors of the 60's, a poor quality book', revisited in reply to Dsl , 01-12-2003 12:57:58  
Sounds like you otter offer yeself as a editor, Deese. ";^)



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