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Case Steam Tractor

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Dave

04-09-2002 12:50:43




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I am trying to determine the market value of a 1912 Case steam tractor. It is a 45 or 50 hp. It was last operated about 2-3 years ago.

Any help will be appreciated. We are looking to sell the tractor.




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B.lessig

10-14-2004 07:24:59




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 Re: Case Steam Tractor in reply to Dave , 04-09-2002 12:50:43  
did you sell it? and how much did you get?



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Bill from up north

04-11-2002 00:45:44




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 Re: Case Steam Tractor in reply to Dave , 04-09-2002 12:50:43  
I have 3 engines in operating condition and have been working with steam engines for a long time. The only thing dangerous about them is the nut behind the wheel. If you don't have enough sense to keep the water level up where it should be ,then you are the trigger on the bomb. With all the instruments available nowadays to check metal thickness etc. there is no excuse for operating a machine that is unsafe-just plain stupidity!!!

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Bill Jones

04-10-2002 05:46:05




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 Re: Case Steam Tractor in reply to Dave , 04-09-2002 12:50:43  
The serial number tag telling you what the horsepower is ,should be located on the left side of the smoke box(front) as you are in front,facing it. I've seen 50 Horse Case engines sell for 10 to 15 thousand,but as was said earlier,it does depend on the condition. I grew up around steam engines (50 hp Case, 18 hp double cylinder Gaar-Scott) there aren't many left-don't scrap it! Does this engine belong to a relative? Why not keep it? And to ihkihoh-as far as being a "bomb", Operator error plays a big part,as well as maintanance .These engines require constant attention by the engineer.It ALWAYS tweaks my nerps to have someone say steam engines should be put in museums-they should be inspected-but a properly maintained engine should have no problems,as long as the operators didn't circumvent the safety devices(as in Ohio).Boilers DO need replaced in a lot of instances,but that should be expected with these engines.That is a big reason they were replaced by tractors in the first place. BillJ

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Allen

04-11-2002 09:53:22




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 Re: Re: Case Steam Tractor in reply to Bill Jones, 04-10-2002 05:46:05  
"Boilers DO need replaced in a lot of instances,but that should be expected with these engines.That is a big reason they were replaced by tractors in the first place."

Boilers may go bad, usually due to lack of proper care, BUT the biggest, and most important reason steam was replaced was economic... thats spelled L-A-B-O-R. Gas tractors required less start up time, less general maintenance, and eliminated the need for a water wagon, it's crew and team.

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Bill Jones

04-12-2002 10:18:03




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 Re: Re: Re: Case Steam Tractor in reply to Allen, 04-11-2002 09:53:22  
The steam engines required boiler replacement and MAJOR overhauls at very close intervals. That meant money and labor and extensive shop space and equipment to do this.That and time to prepare for actual work was at best an hour or two-with a properly banked fire the night before,so the boiler had a little heat in it-requiring less heat to get the water boiling.Steam engines were and are VERY inefficient in their use of fuel;have you ever operated one? If you did you would know how much coal or wood it took to raise and maintain a head of steam.When boilers are used once or twice a year,the stress placed on the boiler is much worse than if the boiler were used every day like they used to be,because of expansion and contraction.The butt-strap and double butt-strap boilers can only take so much.that is why I said if you own a steam engine, it should be no surprise if the boiler needs replaced.The reasoning I said the engines were replaced by tractors was,in my mind,that in the 30's and 40's when the last of the engines were coming due for boiler replacement- the operators opted to spend less money on a new tractor,than spend more money on a boiler refurb,especially when the threshing rigs were becoming outdated,combines were on their way in.You will not find a "pristine"boiler out there-unless it's been replaced-MOST suffer metal fatigue and metal loss due to stress and corrosion. I was just saying that of the many engines out there today,that is why they were replaced with tractors-because the boilers were not in top shape and they were set aside just like all the antique tractors you see in fence rows all over the country.You know ,the ones that need the engines replaced.see what I'm saying?

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Allen

04-12-2002 15:24:47




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Case Steam Tractor in reply to Bill Jones, 04-12-2002 10:18:03  
I know what you are saying, but its not the whole story. It was the time that the big custom threshing crews were on their out. Since money was tight, more farmers chose to, either on their own or in a small co-op, purchase a smaller machine and yes with a gas tractor because it was cheaper...rather than pay the custom man.

A well taken care of boiler was designed to last 10-20 years of "normal' service. An engine that had reached the end of its life cycle was often replaced with a gas tractor because modern=good to many minds at that time. Also, as the depression was looming, and the custom man was losing money to those smaller rigs, the labor savings sounded REAL good to the threshing boss.

In hobby use (once or twice a year) the life expectancy is greatly lengthened, not shortened...provided it recieved proper care. The biggest cause of erosion in hobby boilers is crud, stuff that isn't cleaned off, ashes not cleaned out, soot left in the smokebox, sediment in the boiler, etc. Since there is usually little hurry the fire is not "Pushed" with blower, etc, so temperature changes are MUCH more gradual, LESSENING thermal stress.

BTW, I've been running engines for 25 years, learned from some of the old timers who ran then (traction AND rail) in "the old days", and from an insurance boiler inspector. I've got my ASME section IX weld certs and have BUILT small steel boilers. So I guess that makes me just another dumb yokel who doan know nuthin.

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BillJ

04-12-2002 20:26:03




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Case Steam Tractor in reply to Allen, 04-12-2002 15:24:47  
I'm glad you have all the weld certs and so on. I didn't want to start any war but you must see that the hobby engineer ,for the most part, doesn't follow proper procedure-blowdown the boiler often enough,leave alkaline laden water in the boiler all summer(sometimes winter!), no boiler wash , Do you use soft water? No.So scale forms;under that scale then is a breeding ground for corrosion,because of trapped moisture.You know I've been running Locomotives and Traction Engines since I was 6,that's 30 years-does it make me "smarter" than you? Who knows;I learned from "old timers",I've made repairs IN a boiler when it was still hot- but not under pressure- from inside a firebox ,the ashes dumped and me inserted. Does that make me a certified welder? No. But I have passed Locomotive Engineers exams,built a "kit" model engine,from plans. And have seen a LOT of time in the cab and on the platform of steam operatrd machinery.For some reason I feel rather insulted by your reply,I never called you a "yokel". If you assumed that,it was certainly misunderstood,but don't insult me with the certs and insurance inspector- I don't care. I originally responded to someone who called steam engines a "bomb",I appreciate your teaching me a lesson in economics,but don't.I just tried to give a short response about boiler erosion and operator responsibility. I know why engines went the way of the horse-why flame me? It just reinforces my initial thought- That you were a Putz Suck on that boiler boy!

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Allen

04-13-2002 03:54:44




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Case Steam Tractor in reply to BillJ, 04-12-2002 20:26:03  
YOU gave and still give the idea that most hobby operators are yokels and idiots. quote: "you must see that the hobby engineer ,for the most part, doesn't follow proper procedure-blowdown the boiler often enough". Maybe true where you are, but its not true around here, the lazy ones are definitely in the minority. A hobby boiler is just too big an investment to let it deteriorate from neglect. Yes there ARE yahoos, and guys with more money than brains. But they don't seem to stay around long.

Yes, there are some pretty bad boilers sitting in fencerows, I doubt I'd be in very good shape If I sat outside for 60 years either. BUT (from what I read) had BEEN in preservation, and I'm assuming that since it was operating, somewhat recently inspected (Pa is rather fussy about that). That makes it an entirely different kettle of fish. Could it still need a major overhaul? Possibly. It may be in real nice shape too, or somewhere between. Neither of us knows, because we haven't seen it, so this arguing is pointless.

I didn't flame you, you questioned my experience, and I gave you my answer. You said that all traction boilers retired because they were in marginal or worse condition, and I answered you and gave other reasons. Am I a Putz? No, I'm more of an opinionated, short tempered sunuvab___.

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Rev JJ, HEY ALLEN

04-12-2002 20:17:23




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Case Steam Tractor in reply to Allen, 04-12-2002 15:24:47  
Hey Allen, where are you?would you be interested in putting a new mudleg and partial front flue sheet in a little 13 hp NS? contact me
thanks



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Allen

04-13-2002 03:18:54




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Case Steam Tractor in reply to Rev JJ, HEY ALLEN, 04-12-2002 20:17:23  
Thanks, but no. I don't carry an R stamp.

A good bet is to find a reputable, and fairly local ASME shop, and let them do it on their own pace (rather than a rush or time job) over next winter. The shop foreman will have their guys putter with it when there isn't pressing work needing done, and you'll get the same job, but it will be cheaper.



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Dave

04-10-2002 15:37:50




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 Re: Re: Case Steam Tractor in reply to Bill Jones, 04-10-2002 05:46:05  
Thanks for the info. The tractor belongs to a friend. He's 80 & moving to Oklahoma. There has been recent work to the boiler a couple of years ago prior to firing it up for pulling wagon rides at a family gathering.

As for me, I am mechanically challenged and have trouble keeping my weed-eater running.

Dave



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ihkihoh

04-10-2002 02:15:19




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 Re: Case Steam Tractor in reply to Dave , 04-09-2002 12:50:43  
Drop it on Afghanistan, They can use more bombs there.



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Steam Operator

04-10-2002 07:14:50




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 Re: Re: Case Steam Tractor in reply to ihkihoh, 04-10-2002 02:15:19  
Mr. ihkihoh,
if ignorance is bliss, then you are likely the happiest person on this board, if not the continent. i invite you you stay away from all steam engines, especially the vast majority that are inspected and safely operated by competant engineers.

hows about we get YOU a ticket to Afganistan? you would fell right at home with all the other uneducated fifth century fascist infidels over there.

As for Dave, have your boiler inspected by a competant boiler inspector. An engine with a boiler capable of safely operating at a working pressure above 100lbs(and thus able to do a little work) is a10k plus machine. About half that for one that is only good for a lawn ornament

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fasfasf

04-12-2002 01:16:35




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 Re: Re: Re: Case Steam Tractor in reply to Steam Operator, 04-10-2002 07:14:50  
*UCK YOU



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Steam Operator

04-12-2002 06:37:55




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Case Steam Tractor in reply to fasfasf, 04-12-2002 01:16:35  
Back atcha. Seems you have proved the point about ignorance, eh? Question: what, besides the overwrought reporting of the Madina tragedy(operator error, not machines fault) has made you such an angry, hateful little man?



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Red Dave

04-09-2002 13:05:30




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 Re: Case Steam Tractor in reply to Dave , 04-09-2002 12:50:43  
It really depends on the condition of the boiler. Has it been inspected recently? Boiler repairs are very, very expensive. Does your state have an antique boiler inspection program?
You need to find somone in your area who knows what they are looking at evaluate it and go from there. Are there any antique steam clubs or organizations in your area that could provide some guidance and maybe a referal to qualified inspector. It would be in your best interest to find someone you can trust to look at it. Traction engines vary greatly in value and you don't want to regret the sale later.
Anybody who gives you a price without direct knowledge of the boiler is just guessing.

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Dave

04-09-2002 13:31:58




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 Re: Re: Case Steam Tractor in reply to Red Dave, 04-09-2002 13:05:30  
I am located in south central PA. Any contacts in this area?



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Allen

04-10-2002 13:35:05




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 Re: Re: Re: Case Steam Tractor in reply to Dave , 04-09-2002 13:31:58  
Try talking to the Guys at Farmers & Thresherman's at the New Centerville fire dept (south of Somerset)... just don't let Mike Miller talk you out of it too cheaply



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Dave

04-10-2002 15:32:43




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Case Steam Tractor in reply to Allen, 04-10-2002 13:35:05  
How do I get a hold of them?



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Dave

04-10-2002 15:32:32




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Case Steam Tractor in reply to Allen, 04-10-2002 13:35:05  
How do I get a hold of them?



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Allen

04-10-2002 15:55:42




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Case Steam Tractor in reply to Dave , 04-10-2002 15:32:32  
Phone # I have is 814-926-3142

Another coice would be to call Tom Downing from the Portersville club, He may be willing to drive out to give it a look over as well (724-752-1845)



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J I CASE

04-10-2002 19:20:15




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Case Steam Tractor in reply to Allen, 04-10-2002 15:55:42  
Dave,
It has been a dream of mine to own a Case steam traction tractor for years now and been looking hard. IF you are going to sell the Steam engine please contact me before you sell as I would most definately be interested in purchasing the tractor at a fair price. Email me if you like and lets talk a little more about condition and what you have. I am located in NC and PA is not that far from me . Thanks JI CASE

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Red Dave - Yep!

04-09-2002 15:25:38




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 Re: Re: Re: Case Steam Tractor in reply to Dave , 04-09-2002 13:31:58  
Rough & Tumble Engineers, Kinzers, PA. On Route 30 East of Lancaster.
If I were you, I'd take pictures of it from several angles, Write down any markings such as model numbers, serial numbers etc. and bring them to Spring Steam Up May 10 & 11. Go to the area with the traction engines and ask for Butch Biesecker (he is in charge of the steam engines).
If anybody can steer you in the right direction, he can. When you are ready to advertise it for sale, I suggest Iron Men Album. It's the magazine for steam traction engines.
Good Luck

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