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Power master 841 12 Vilt Upgrade issue

M

monroehillfarm

New User
Ok so I have tried everything I know possible. I ordered the complete 12 volt upgrade for my Ford Powermaster 841. Replaced the following parts on the tractor. Alternator, Coil, Solenoid, and a 12 volt electronic ignition to replace the distributor condenser and points. I have wired the system back according to the 12 volt upgrade diagram supplied by yesterdays tractor. The only difference I really see is that I went from a three post solenoid to a four post.

So after all that here is my issue. The original starter button will no longer start the tractor. Top lug to battery bottom lug to starter S to original push button and I to key switch power. Nothing happens when button is pressed. Have removed wire from the button and applied it straight to ground and still nothing. If I take the wire off the I and put it on the S then it will turn the tractor over, but it will just continue to turn it over until the key is turned off. I would assume that s because it is feeding co start 12 volt to the solenoid.

I was thinking maybe a bad solenoid, but went to tractor supply and bought another 4 post 12 volt for ford 801 and same result.

Can someone please help with this
 
They use a 'grounding' solenoid. the one you used is not. go back to your original solenoid. I'll bet it will start.
 
It has the wrong starter solenoid.

The one you need is a non grounded excite coil. Each of the small posts is connected to the exciter coil.

The one you have grounds the exciter coil through the bracket.

You may have ordered the right one and it is boxed wrong. Try a different brand, otherwise you may get the same mistake again.

You can take your ohm meter with you, check across the small terminals, should get continuity. But from the S to the base nothing.
 
. Ok I ll try that. Where would you suggest I find the correct solenoid for my tractor? The one I got stated it doesn t ground via the case, but who knows
 
I disagree. The ?S? terminal should get power from the starter
button.
The ?I? terminal goes to the ignition coil to bypass the
resistor(If used). The key switch should only feed the ballast
resistor (if used); otherwise it goes to the coil itself. The
keyswitch must also feed the [normally open] starter button.

The solenoid, technically a big relay, is internally grounded,
and the ground is working, which you?ve proved is working by
feeding the ?S? terminal with 12 Volts direct from the
keyswitch.
 
So are you saying go from The key switch where it provides power to the right side of the terminal block down to the starter switch then to the solenoid? Only thing I see with that is when you press the button it is going to go to a ground and you ll have 12 volts going to ground at the button.
 
Tramway Guy, the Ford starter button completes the solenoid circuit to ground. So you have a hot from the key switch to the solenoid, then a ground connected to the start button. What the others below have said is correct.

My wife's 961 is setup right now with a bosch relay to trigger power to the s terminal on a solenoid like the OP here has. The wiring was a total mess when we got this tractor, just cobbled it up with what I had on hand.
 
Moresmike, the thing I don t understand is I have power going to the S on the solenoid and applied direct ground from the battery to the I on solenoid and it still doesn t turn over. It s like it s wanting 12 volt on the S and not a ground. Tried reversing them and nothing happens.
 
Michford, does that relay have a positive and negative terminal instead of an S and I? So you have two large lugs for positive from bat and the other large lug to starter. Then a positive from key switch and a negative from push button.
 
On the solenoid you have, I is connected
to the big lug that goes to the starter.
It is there to boost the power going to
the coil. I has nothing to do with
triggering the solenoid.
 
(quoted from post at 22:21:36 04/23/20) Michford, does that relay have a positive and negative terminal instead of an S and I? So you have two large lugs for positive from bat and the other large lug to starter. Then a positive from key switch and a negative from push button.
Click to expand...
icnford may be the only responder here that knows what he is talking about...St-542..forget all the other wanta bees.
 
The Napa ST-542 has "I" and "S" small terminals and is activated by ground not voltage. The "I" terminal is connected to the hot side of the ignition switch. The "S" terminal is connected to the push button starter on top of the transmission. Attached is a link to an article here on YT that gives a great explanation of doing a 12 volt conversion, and also a diagram of the different types of solenoids. Just because a solenoid has the same number of terminals does not make them all the same as the diagram shows.
cvphoto2571.jpg

12V conversion article
 
You've hopelessly messed up this tractors electrical system. Your only hope now is to buy another, better running tractor (and then another, and then a few more).
 
Monroe, all the fine gents who explained the difference in older Ford 3 terminal solenoids and how they were activated by supplying a switched ground VERSUS the later model which require a hot voltage source (NOT a ground) for activation ARE RIGHT ON IN MY OPINION. Look at their diagrams and explanations and you will get it right.

John T NOT any Ford man but believe this is still true
 
OR you can keep the solenoid you have and simply put a common (and much cheaper) automotive 5 pin, 5.oo relay next to the solenoid that you wire up to supply 12 volt (+) on terminals "30" & "85", ground from starter push button to terminal "86". Your power will flow from terminal "30" to terminal "87" and from that terminal to your "S" terminal on the solenoid. To activate this circuit you push your starter button as originally intended to supply the ground to the relay. That throws the internal relay switch that supplies 12 volts (+) to the solenoid to activate the starter. That way you can use the Ford solenoid you have and easily bypass the relay when you get the correct solenoid.
cvphoto2582.jpg
 
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