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DOT regs on farm vehicles

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E.B. Haymakin'

12-12-2007 21:22:44




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I have read on this site, and seen the requirement of DOT numbers for farm vehicles in Alabama. Reading the earlier posts about what is commercial, and crossing state lines is really distressing. Tell me, but does it seem that government is really trying their wits out to make making a living honestly impossible? If I understand Alabama law, as I have read it, farm tags are only good for vehicles when operated within the county they are registered. So much for buying that good deal used tractor in Oxford, MS, and bringing it home yourself! Anyway. Good luck Wayne!!!!!

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Chuck430C

01-02-2008 09:30:55




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 Re: DOT regs on farm vehicles in reply to E.B. Haymakin', 12-12-2007 21:22:44  
The problem with farm tags is the same as other issues. More and more folks out there are running farm tags to avoid paying the proper levies. The DOT knows this and most of the other tricks.
There was a time when you could put farm tags on your small rig, run at night, and with some luck, never get caught.
They know that there are some folks hauling their own tractors, but there are many more out there hauling for profit. It is considered "commerce" even when you go haul tractors that you are going to later resale. Your rig is part of a business, not a personal rig used for hauling your toys to shows.
If you consider the wide variety of rigs out there, from 1/2 ton pick ups with a landscape trailer, to a full tandem axle tractor trailer flat bed, you can see how it is hard to regulate this for folks that ONLY want to haul their own tractors to shows.
The temptation is too great to haul for money or use it in business when you have the rig that will do it.
As they catch more and more liars and crooks, the laws will only get worse, not better. So tell your buddies to stop running illegal and maybe we can get special laws for tractor buffs hauling their won toys.

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E.B. Haymakin'

01-12-2008 05:53:00




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 Re: DOT regs on farm vehicles in reply to Chuck430C, 01-02-2008 09:30:55  
Not my point at all. I don"t believe the government should be fooling with any vehicles involved in any local trade. All the local vehicles I mention are carrying regular tags, but since their owner is using them in some capacity in their self employment (locally) they are held to DOT regs. I haven"t seen a farm tag in Baldwin County in so long it"s not funny. They are around, but only farmers have them. According to State of Alabma even farm tag trucks must now carry DOT numbers etc, why-they are used in commerce. I say again flatly-the government will run you out of business before you even have a shot at making it. THAT"s why our economy is in the (^^*(&^* because the government is running around sticking our money in their pockets!

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witcherfarmsinc

12-29-2007 13:30:00




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 Re: DOT regs on farm vehicles in reply to E.B. Haymakin', 12-12-2007 21:22:44  
We have three rigs all licensed with farm tags. Two of them are 1 ton pickups, the second is a tractor truck we pull a drop deck with. We are fully DOT legal. We have Class A cdl licenses, have our IFTA license and decals, DOT number, etc. We have to have commercial insurance on our tractor truck but limit ourselves to a 300 mile radius and get by for about $350 a month on that rig. On our pickups and goosnecks we have standard insurance, we are not for hire. Our DOT auditor here told us that we were good for insurance that way. However he also said that farm tags outside the state of Arkansas (where we live) are dependent upon the state in which you are travelling. AR has reciprocal agreements with OK, TX, LA, MS, and TN to a distance of 150 miles from the AR border. Past that is up to the officer and he also said MO did not recognize them at all...Soooo...we go all over the place in our pickups with farm tags, knock on wood we"ve never had a problem. And since we are hauling farm machinery and have all of our other ducks in a row right down to our log books and hours of operation, we get along really well. We have had zero trouble anywhere since we did our paperwork. It"s a bit of a hassle at first especially if you have no idea what you"re doing like we did. I don"t know how it is elsewhere but AR has an entrance program where they basically give you a break the 1st year on the file cabinet stuff and help you get aquainted with the system. Our auditor has been most helpful and walked us through the whole process. Boys, if you"re going to go from state to state and drive your rig you"re gonna have to get your stuff in order, you can"t outlaw forever and it not eventually cost you BIG. It"s a little paperwork now, we"ve been legal for two years now. All we have to do is go online and do a biannaul DOT update and fill out a quarterly fuel report for IFTA, keep your old log books and vehicle maintenance records in a file box and that"s it in a nutshell..A little extra work but a lot better than getting drydocked two states away at some weigh station. You can go to FMCSA website for more info. www.fmcsa.dot.gov/ Right now Dot numbers are still free but they tell me, yeah you guessed it, they"re gonna start chargin for that too....

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john_Bud

12-14-2007 07:39:29




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 Re: DOT regs on farm vehicles in reply to Kim P, 12-12-2007 21:22:44  

john in la said: (quoted from post at 07:29:17 12/13/07) What laws do you think stop you from making a living honestly?????

The DOT # laws have been in place since I can remember. This is not new. Like Dave said they are there to verify that you have proper insurance and safety practices in place.

m.


John, the latest laws with the USDOT numbers being needed for 10,001 pounds combined is one. The requirements are HUGE for an individual that is only hauling a set of lawn mowers. Needing the same requirements as a big rig that runs a 1/4 million miles a year hauling 65,000# is just crazy. All it does is make people switch from a 3/4 ton truck with a decent trailer to a ford ranger with a micro trailer. Which is the superior and safer tow rig? So why does the use of the safer rig requiring you to pay $5-6,000 per year in insurance etc and spend 100+ hours on paperwork?

The whole change was (IMHO) driven by the teamsters union to get more cartage and as the teamsters have many politicians in thier hip pocket, guess what happened?

Laws and reguations for improving safety have one thing in common. They all make sense, are easily understandable and only a fool would ignore them. Can anyone tell me that the total mis-mash of DOT regs, state reg, etc fall into that category? Heck, even the troopers that are most familiar with them have trouble.
Ok, I'm better now. Rant off!

Merry Christmas

jb

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Texas Hayman

12-13-2007 08:22:33




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 Re: DOT regs on farm vehicles in reply to E.B. Haymakin', 12-12-2007 21:22:44  
I run farm tags on all my trucks,and no DOT numbers..here in Texas i have never had an issue..of course i dont travel more than 150 miles from my farms nor do i haul for other people(well maybe an occassional load of hay).A couple of friends of mine have added "not for commerce" on their trucks, however i havent..As far as dot helping us,my trucks and every farmer i know have insurrance,current inspections and trucks that are maintained as good if not better than an over the road truck! .

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john in la

12-13-2007 06:29:17




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 Re: DOT regs on farm vehicles in reply to E.B. Haymakin', 12-12-2007 21:22:44  
What laws do you think stop you from making a living honestly?????

The DOT # laws have been in place since I can remember. This is not new. Like Dave said they are there to verify that you have proper insurance and safety practices in place.

The CDL is fairly new but farmers are exempt within 150 miles of the farm. To go outside the 150 mile radius you need to understand why the CDL was invented. Use to be a driver could have a drivers license from several states. He would use one to get insurance and jobs; and a different one to get tickets for bad driving. States did not share info so no one knew better. Now with a CDL all states get all the info on a driver. No matter where he goes they know his record.

A Farm tag is usually good where ever the truck goes. In fact I would like to see the law that says the tag is only good in the county it was issued. The reason is La; Miss: and Ala; have always honored each others stuff. In fact long before CDL's and all this fancy stuff came around these 3 states were on the same computer system and shared info. While I do not work with farm tags anymore and the law may have changed I have been all over Tx; Ok; Miss: Ala; with La farm tags and have never had a problem.

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E.B. Haymakin'

12-13-2007 22:44:55




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 Re: DOT regs on farm vehicles in reply to john in la, 12-13-2007 06:29:17  
The DOT numbers were required in Alabama at the start of 06 or 07. If you use your vehicle in any capacity to make revenue, the State of Alabama wants DOT #"s. I believe the vehicles required had to meet some weight rating/trailer combination. Regardless in BALDWIN County Alabama there have been plenty of small time business men in the lawn mowing, painting, building contractor, and you name it that were slammed for not having DOT numbers. You cannot start a business in most areas any more without the government regulating you into bankruptcy. About two years ago I found a listed statute on ALISON, the state legislature"s website that detailed "farm tag" regs. I cannot find it tonight on ALISON, but somewhere I have a copy of it. I can"t even see on ALISON where Alabama even currently has a "farm tag" anymore. I have asked local law enforcement about DOT regs, and most believe that if I am pulling trailer will in making money in any capacity they can apply DOT rules. So, the hay field I cut from 1/4 mile up the road, and no DOT numbers on my 97 Nissan with 16" trailer = ticket. That"s how I see it. They are in our pockets. By the way, while on ALISON I found a state law that forbids farm tractors from being wider than 9" feet. Over in the panhandle of Florida, before Thanksgiving, news reports were that local farmers were being ticketed for operating farm equipment that was too wide. Cotton pickers etc. If I go out, and buy a 3/4 ton pickup with 12,000lbs trailer to try make extra money on the side-in addition to my other full time job- the government has seen fit to regulate me out. My opinion, with respect.

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Chuck430C

12-13-2007 05:04:16




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 Re: DOT regs on farm vehicles in reply to E.B. Haymakin', 12-12-2007 21:22:44  
E B, one of the confusing issues is that they call it a "Commercial Driver's License." That leads the unknowing to think that it only means trucks hauling goods for profit that belong to companies. Nothing could be further from the truth.
It has to do with weight, axles, width, and driver ability.
These laws are in place to protect both the truckers and the other vehicles on the highways that could become a statistic.
Based on this, is a "farm truck" that is dangerous, just as dangerous in it's own county, as it would be in another state?

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Doug in IL

12-13-2007 05:37:45




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 Re: DOT regs on farm vehicles in reply to Chuck430C, 12-13-2007 05:04:16  
These laws are in place as revenue generators, that's all. Plain and simple. Just like toll booths and excise taxes on tires. Of course, no one can tell you what the laws are. Ask 10 times and you will get at least 8 different answers. It's a complete boondoggle. How much money do you think they are raking in from CDL fees alone? Are the roads any safer? Of course not. It just like the old Illinois pickup inspection law. When they got rid of it, some said the accident rate with pickups would skyrocket. Did that happen? No.

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1206SWMO

12-13-2007 08:53:58




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 Re: DOT regs on farm vehicles in reply to Doug in IL, 12-13-2007 05:37:45  
Doug, I and almost everyone that I talk to will agree 100% with you.Things are just too confusing and expensive.It just makes you want to stay at home.We need uniform laws everywhere that can be understood.If you are legal in your home state,then you should be legal everywhere.You shouldnt have to fear going to a neighboring state. I never have figured out the 150 mile farm rule.All I know is that I've been over 750 miles from home on farm plates with no problems but I cross no scales..However,if you live on a state line and farm in 2 different states it can present problems depending on how the rules are interpeted.

All vehicles are state inspected in MO and trailers should be too.DOT shouldnt have to inspect them unless its a random check which I'm sure most will flunk over some little thing.I still dont see any pickups pulling trailers that have DOT numbers on them.

From what I can see,CDL's sure havent made our roads any safer.How some of these people passed their test is beyond me.You cant legislate out stupidity.

I live a few miles from a truck stop and several times have almost slid under semi-trailers as some will run the stop sign and pull right out in front of you no matter what.

Enough of my ranting.

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davediehl@hotmail.com

12-12-2007 23:11:09




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 Re: DOT regs on farm vehicles in reply to E.B. Haymakin', 12-12-2007 21:22:44  
Though some I'm sure will disagree, the rules and regulations are for the protection of the operators. Its been a known fact that our society has become one of legality and who can sue who and for how much. The biggest thing with the DOT regulation is that each number issued will have proper insurance, and inspections to protect the people sharing the road. Though you may never have an accident that is your fault, someone somewhere will. They will be engaged in a legal battle that will literally ruin their lives. Expecially if someone dies from the incident. (Most small vehicle accidents versus a large truck at highway speeds are fatal accidents)

Just 2 weeks ago I had a driver who had a brake failure, the brakes overheated with the failure, a fire broke out and caused 4 cars and a semi to burn on the interstate. He was hauling 7 used cars. He had received citations in Texas for tires and brakes. The kicker was that there was no insurance on the vehicle or the load. His comment to me after the interview at the scene was that he traveled at night because the weigh stations were closed and there was not many officers on the road at night looking to stop a big truck. There was no numbers on the truck. He elected to remain at the rest area where his "boss" was to pick him up. He remained there 2 days until we took him to a bus station after the owner of the truck failed to arrive to transport him back home. He will be billed for the fire services, towing fees and the damage to the road. The towing bill alone was more than $3,000. The damage to the road will be in the $1,000 or more, plus whatever the fire department zaps him for. Not to mention the loss of the rig and the cars. The truck frame collapsed under the heat. It was a big mess which shut down the interstate for 4 hours at 3:00 a.m.

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john in la

12-13-2007 05:50:40




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 Re: DOT regs on farm vehicles in reply to davediehl@hotmail.com, 12-12-2007 23:11:09  
And his boss will close up shop; put a differant name on a new truck; and your state will never see a dime.



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davediehl@hotmail.com

12-13-2007 06:50:35




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 Re: DOT regs on farm vehicles in reply to john in la, 12-13-2007 05:50:40  
Very probable. His license will be suspended as well. Its just like stealing gas here. Compact states are good for taking care of old business. When he goes to renew, he will not have the ability. Plus he will show a no insurance violation on his record.



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Danny Tabor

01-01-2008 17:11:22




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 Re: DOT regs on farm vehicles in reply to davediehl@hotmail.com, 12-13-2007 06:50:35  
Laws have the likeness of locks. They keep the honest man honest. Some how others get around them. I'm an owner operator bulk cement hauler when I'm not piddling with old tractors. Last year I was rear ended by a garbage hauler. He didn't speak english and so while I was talking to the police on my cell phone, he had handed me his cell phone with his boss on it trying to talk me into forgetting it ever happened. I threw his cell out the window. breaking it (little satisfaction) Any way to make a long story short, When the PA officer showed up He had gotten me the insurance info. etc. from the other driver. I turned it into my insurance co.. It turned out he didn't have insurance, The info. he had given to the officer was for cargo insurance, not liability. My insurance company continued to persue However hit a wall when the cargo insurance was cancelled and the garbage hauling outfit some how disapeared. Fortunately for me the damage to my trailer was more bull work than money and so I did it and ate the expense myself rather than going through my uninsured drivers insurance. In the dry bulk business there's an outfit that operates, I imagine, as that garbage hauler. The information on the door (name, numbers) change more frequently than the weather. Of course the drivers don't speak english for me to ask why their company changed. It is very expensive operating a tractor trailer. I don't complain so much about the laws & regulations but the expense of being compliant and the ease, it seems for others not to be. Road side inspections are important and all the PA State Police officers I've been inspected by have been very good to me. However Pa allows township police to inspect trucks and they are a little different story. I've learned this first hand and have been told by a state officer that the worst thing PA had ever done was turning DOT inspections over to townships because for them it does turn into a money maker.

Danny Tabor

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