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Gasoline Blends

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Bob

01-26-2000 18:30:42




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When gasoline prices soared recently I heard a representive from the petro industry on Minnesota Public Radio make the following statement: "Currently all gasoline sold up north is a winter blend which costs more to produce. In the spring surplus winter blend fuel will be shipped up from down south and fuel prices will drop." Now, my question, is there really a winter blend and a summer blend of gasoline? I know that diesel fuel has a summer and winter blend, #1 and #2. I have never heard of winter and summer blends in gasoline.

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Burrhead--Watch dem yuppies Tom S

01-27-2000 18:13:45




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 Re: Re: Gasoline Blends in reply to Tom S., 01-27-2000 05:57:26  
Tom you're letting these yuppies get out of hand here, Could you watch them a little closer???
Winter and summer blend gasoline, good gosh boys get real, even if that was real how come warmer climate fuels would be cheaper. I'll remember that when I'm paying $1.78 in Miami next summer. The reason it's so high is so I can crank up at the beach at 105 degrees huh????? I'll try to remember it this winter when I'm in Chicago and it's cheaper than New Orleans.
I been stealing gas from Conoco and Exxon here at the refineries for many moons. I never heard of a winter blend gasoline. They have'nt either. The only difference in the gas is the amount of filter processing done during refining. If that lighter is better was for real, Mobil had white gas many moons ago and they condemned it just like the other gases.
The only thing that regulates the price is just what you said Tom, supply and demand.
These yuppies believe anything. I wish I had a nickle for every wrong thing them college boys ever told us. Old Newtt and Rush has really been workin with these boys Tom watch out.

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clooney

01-28-2000 14:41:53




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 Re: Re: Re: Gasoline Blends in reply to Burrhead--Watch dem yuppies Tom S, 01-27-2000 18:13:45  
Burrhead, I hate to get you going again (you must have a relative thats a yuppie) but not only is there a summer and a winter gasoline, there is a northern & southern gasoline.



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Burrhead

02-01-2000 20:29:34




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Gasoline Blends in reply to clooney, 01-28-2000 14:41:53  
Well maybe you're right, but there aint any difference around here. Yuppies buy fancy marketing and not the products anyway. If theres north and south and winter and summer then does that mean I should'nt burn what's in my storage tanks here??? Sometimes I only refill once each year, and I did'nt know to ask which fuel it is. I sure don't want any winter fuels at the beach with me in July or August, or Northern fuel when I go to the Valley in any season.
By the way I out lived all my yuppie relatives. When I outlived the last one I quit smoking and drinking. I don't think their jogging helped them at all. It probly helped us pall bearers tho cause they was'nt any of them too heavy for a bunch of decreped old timers to carry off.

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Neal

01-27-2000 18:25:33




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 Re: Re: Re: Gasoline Blends in reply to Burrhead--Watch dem yuppies Tom S, 01-27-2000 18:13:45  
What about oxygenated gasoline I've heard so much about??? I am not a yuppie! Neal



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Burrhead

01-28-2000 10:05:57




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Gasoline Blends in reply to Neal, 01-27-2000 18:25:33  
Sorry Neal you sound like a yuppie. That oxygenated fuel is fuel that's been run through a fish bowl aerorator. A yuppie will pay extra for anything that you can write on the label.
You might want to ride a bike if the gas is too high. They get better mileage and you can kick start them. I better say that I can kick start them I don't think a yuppie can do it.



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Bob in NY

01-28-2000 08:09:30




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Gasoline Blends in reply to Neal, 01-27-2000 18:25:33  
The big news here last week stated that MBTE (the stuff refiners add to make oxygenated gas and which NY State forces us to buy at a dime extra a gallon) is a carcinogen. Now scientists have determined MBTE from gas-powered vehicles is showing up in our water supply. Gotta love those NY polititians!

Regarding summer-winter blends, refiners here indeed used to provide seasonal blends. And there WAS a significant difference. Winter blend in a tractor worked hard on a hot day in May would boil furiously right in the gas tank. Also made for poor running (vapor lock) and hard hot restarts. Conversely summer blend made cold weather starting difficult to impossible. Seems the pricey "designer" gas we get here in NY now exhibits BOTH undesirable characteristics at once. Whatta deal!

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Burrhead

01-28-2000 09:59:38




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Gasoline Blends in reply to Bob in NY, 01-28-2000 08:09:30  
That's leach water from Lovers Canal they mix in your gas up there in NY. Yall got some of the best politicians that money can buy too.
That oxygenated fuels is so you don't get dizzy and pass out when you're siphoning gas from a neighbors car.



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clooney

01-27-2000 02:38:29




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 Re: Gasoline Blends in reply to Bob, 01-26-2000 18:30:42  
Bob, winter blends have more "light ends" in them so the fuel vaporizes easier in cold weather to help starting,summer blends have less "light ends" in them to decrease evaporation & reduce vapor lock & help lower evaporative emissions.



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Bob

01-27-2000 16:37:21




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 Re: Re: Gasoline Blends in reply to clooney, 01-27-2000 02:38:29  
OK. Next question. What are "light ends"?



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clooney

01-28-2000 16:12:24




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 Re: Re: Re: Gasoline Blends in reply to Bob, 01-27-2000 16:37:21  
Bob, Jerry B's explanation is a good one. I'll add a little "LIGHTER SIDE" to the light end debate---This section is copied from a fuel handling report (not the whole report)----- ---

Volatility


Volatility describes a gasoline's tendency to form vapors. Liquid gasoline does not burn; only gasoline vapor burns. To start a cold engine, enough low boiling components ("light ends") must vaporize at the engine temperature to form a combustible vapor-air mixture.

This is one reason that the volatility of gasoline is tailored for the range of temperatures expected in the locality where is it sold. "Winter gasoline" has a higher volatility for easy starting in cold weather. "Summer gasoline" has a lower volatility because hydrocarbon vapor in the atmosphere contributes to smog formation.


Evaporation

The gasoline light ends needed for easy starting have the same tendency to vaporize in storage as they do in an engine. If the storage container is not tightly sealed, some of the light ends gradually will be lost. Too great a loss decreases the gasoline's ability to start an engine.

Evaporation of gasoline from a vented fuel tank or a can with a loose cap would be minimal if the temperature of the container were constant. But daily temperature changes cause the temperature of the container to cycle. The heating portion of the cycle raises the pressure of the gas (gasoline vapor and air) above the liquid gasoline which, in turn, drives some of the vapor-air mixture out of the container. The succeeding cooling cycle lowers the pressure of the gas, drawing fresh air into the container. Light ends evaporate from the liquid gasoline to saturate the new air. The daily repetition of this cycle gradually pumps light ends out of the container.

The cycle also brings air and water vapor into the container, especially during periods of high humidity. The oxygen in the air contributes to gum formation. (See Oxidation section.) And the water vapor, if it condenses during the cooling cycle, contaminates the gasoline with liquid water.

A larger volume of gas will be pumped in and out of the container when the air space above the liquid fuel is larger and when the daily temperature change is larger. Consequently, keeping the container almost full of gasoline and controlling the temperature fluctuations will minimize the loss of light ends, the exposure of the gasoline to air, and the contamination of the gasoline with water.

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Jerry B

01-27-2000 17:53:13




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 Re: Re: Re: Gasoline Blends in reply to Bob, 01-27-2000 16:37:21  
The oil refining process is just that. A process of making the existing product (heavy crude oil) 'finer' (or 'lighter'). When this is done, a whole range of products come out, including heating oils (heavy), lubricating oils (less heavy), diesel, kerosense (lighter), gasoline (light), etc. In each of these products there is a range of 'weights' of the petroleum esters. Thus the term 'light ends'.

Further, at the end of modern refining operations, blending is done to more closely tailor the product to its intended use, thus 'winter' vs 'summer' blends. These are either re-mixes of the petroleum products, the addition of various non-petroleum products, or more usually both. For example here in California oxygenators (alcohol & MTBE) are added (blended in) seasonally to help inhibit air polution so folks living downstream can breath a little easier.

The fuel companies seek ANY excuse to hold prices high: "winter blends cost more"; "summer usage stresses production capability"; 'market's too small"; "too much demand"; "devil made me do it"; etc, etc..

We can probably expect this sort of thing to become even more prevalent (read higher fuel prices) as soon as the environmental vice president changes his title.

Oh forgot; he has to get elected first!

Jerry

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John

01-29-2000 01:34:12




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Gasoline Blends in reply to Jerry B, 01-27-2000 17:53:13  
Jerry;
"The fuel companies seek ANY excuse to hold prices high: "winter blends cost more"; "summer usage stresses production capability"; 'market's too small"; "too much demand"; "devil made me do it"; etc, etc.." That because they know if the government tries to call them on that bulls**t Newt and Rush will staart whining about government interfering with FREE ENTERPRIZE



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John

01-29-2000 01:33:25




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Gasoline Blends in reply to Jerry B, 01-27-2000 17:53:13  
Jerry;
"The fuel companies seek ANY excuse to hold prices high: "winter blends cost more"; "summer usage stresses production capability"; 'market's too small"; "too much demand"; "devil made me do it"; etc, etc.." That because they know if the government tries to call them on that bulls**t Newt and Rush will staart whining about government interfering with FREE ENTERPR



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Burrhead---Good answer

02-01-2000 13:38:57




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Gasoline Blends in reply to John, 01-29-2000 01:33:25  
Somebody else has been keepng up with the times. You're a good man.



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catblaster

01-30-2000 19:51:19




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Gasoline Blends in reply to John, 01-29-2000 01:33:25  
Aw come on John, like we could believe ANYTHING that Bill and Al have told us.



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John

01-31-2000 00:18:28




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Gasoline Blends in reply to catblaster, 01-30-2000 19:51:19  
Catblaster;
I guess you enjoy being raped by big businesss!



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Burrhead

02-01-2000 13:40:18




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Gasoline Blends in reply to John, 01-31-2000 00:18:28  
Naw he probly just got brainwashed by Rush before he knew what happened.



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catblaster

02-01-2000 17:36:30




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Gasoline Blends in reply to Burrhead, 02-01-2000 13:40:18  
would you rather talk tools or politics, you guys really shouldn't bring sex into the discussion considering your Pres. Anyway I'm outta here you two can talk among yourselves from now on.



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Burrhead

02-01-2000 20:43:26




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Gasoline Blends in reply to catblaster, 02-01-2000 17:36:30  
I wish you would'nt get upset about something so silly as the gas company. Exxon and Texaco have Class Action lawsuits against them cause they were putting regular gas out and selling it as high test. Do you honestly think that they would put additives in any of it. Think about it a second. If they are deliberately stealing the price difference do you think they are worried about how they blend it to sell??? Wake up friend. We're all in the same boat.

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catblaster

02-02-2000 17:57:40




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Gasoline Blends in reply to Burrhead, 02-01-2000 20:43:26  
Incorrect assumption! Read the posts and you will not find where I disagreed with Oil and Gas companies falsly inflating prices. I receive royalty payments from several gas wells and have noticed every year preceeding onset of winter the gas companies cut back production, naturally prices go up. This is reflected in the number of MCF of gas removed from the wells printed out on my check invoice. also I seriously doubt they would haul fuel from the south to the north since 90% is distributed by pipeline.
I however do resent the interjection of politics into a tool forum and the suggestion that I enjoy being raped by anyone. over 55% of my earnings now go to taxes...I want MY money back, maybe then I could afford to pay for the overly inflated price of gas, take off the taxes and the gasoline price is almost reasonable. My county gov just added another .05 a gal to build another road, of course the new courthouse comes first. So tell me who is raping who, our gov is really hoseing us, they are the rapists. Hell, I should know I work for the gov (not real proud of it either) Now do you want to talk tools or politics.

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Burrhead

02-06-2000 18:32:41




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Gasoline Blends in reply to catblaster, 02-02-2000 17:57:40  
I did'nt say they haul gas anywhere. I believe in pipe lines, they're a heckof a lot more safe than hiway transport anyhow.
If you're so tired of paying all them taxes you'll have to take on more charities like Rush and the radical right wing. I'm happy to pay my taxes, it's just the patriotic thing to do. You must be one of them extreme leftist who don't believe in taxes. Pay your tax and quit whining. I need a raise and it's the taxpayers who make that possible.

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John

02-03-2000 07:42:41




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Gasoline Blends in reply to catblaster, 02-02-2000 17:57:40  
Thats because they were stockpiling to keep from paying more for it later in the year!



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Now THAT was a good answer!

02-03-2000 01:45:42




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Gasoline Blends in reply to catblaster, 02-02-2000 17:57:40  
;-}



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MIKE LANGRAN

01-28-2000 06:19:18




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Gasoline Blends in reply to Jerry B, 01-27-2000 17:53:13  
there is a fellow on the radio in yhe DFW metroplex thats being cussing that mtbe for years, says it getting into our drinking water, in fact, SanMonica,Ca, they have to bring in outside water at a very high cost.



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Jerry B

01-28-2000 18:11:13




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Gasoline Blends in reply to MIKE LANGRAN, 01-28-2000 06:19:18  
Yeah Mike, he's absolutely right. I didn't mention that MTBE has now been taken out of gas in Calif. Not immediately; phased out in two or three years. Typical case of our government in action. First they legislate the stuff in without any consideration to the science that said it could be dangerous. Next, 3/4 of the ground water in Calif. is polluted. Now they can't even do the right thing which is to IMMEDIATELY ban it!

No wonder lots of people don't trust the government.

Jerry

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Burrhead

02-01-2000 13:44:33




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Gasoline Blends in reply to Jerry B, 01-28-2000 18:11:13  
Cal aint a good test standard. They got everything contaminated or laminated or something. California is strictly a yuppie proving ground. They file lawsuits just to see if the coast is clear to file another lawsuit.



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jim bates

08-20-2001 22:45:40




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Gasoline Blends in reply to Burrhead, 02-01-2000 13:44:33  
How do I find out different gasoline blends in each section of the country. I think there are 18 of them and would like to know ingredients in each? also would like to know summer/winter etc deviations. any help or website info would be appreciated



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jim bates

08-20-2001 22:42:17




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Gasoline Blends in reply to Burrhead, 02-01-2000 13:44:33  
How do I find out different gasoline blends in each section of the country. I think there are 18 of them and would like to know ingredients in each?



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Dusty

01-26-2000 18:43:04




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 Re: Gasoline Blends in reply to Bob, 01-26-2000 18:30:42  
Yes there is a difference. With winter blend engines start much easier.

Dusty



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