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Propane tank for air storage

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dan from Mi

01-26-2000 06:31:58




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Does anyone know about using a 500 gal propane tank for a air compressor tank? Used tank are cheap and I've heard the Amish use them. Pressure limits? Smell?




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Paul

01-29-2000 20:07:36




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 Re: Propane tank for air storage in reply to dan from Mi, 01-26-2000 06:31:58  
Dan, I've used a 100 lb. propane tank for a home built air compressor tank for 30 years. I took the valve off, turned it upside down for about a month to "air out", filled it with water, and welded the compressor mounts to it. Before using it, I pressure tested it by filling it with water and piping 200 lb. of air pressure to it. A large volume of air in a tank is dangerous if it ruptures. Water will not compress and is much safer to test with. Oh by the way, the propane soaks into the pores of the steel tank over a period of years, so don't expect those pores to release all of the "stored" propane quickly. During the water filled welding process, an occasional pop, about like a .22 rifle could be heard. I would have never tried this, but I have a trusted friend who welded damaged propane delivery trucks for a living, and I followed his instructions to a T. Don't ask me to help you though - once is enough in my lifetime. 30 years ago I was so poor I couldn't afford to pay attention. I'd just buy a new one today.

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Tim W

01-27-2000 03:55:15




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 Re: Propane tank for air storage in reply to dan from Mi, 01-26-2000 06:31:58  
I can tell you from expererience on a smaller propane tank, that rinsing it out with water will not get rid of the smell or of a residue of VERY flammable vapors. Got a very scary WHOOSH when we tested it for vapors. (Did you mean 500 GALLONS!?)



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big fred

01-27-2000 06:54:15




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 Re: Re: Propane tank for air storage in reply to Tim W, 01-27-2000 03:55:15  
You should be able to get rid of those flammable vapors by orienting any holes (fill port) toward the bottom and letting the vapor run out over a period of days. The vapor is propane, and heavier than air. That's how they empty propane delivery trucks before they weld on the tanks.



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Tom S.

01-27-2000 08:39:54




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 Re: Re: Re: Propane tank for air storage in reply to big fred, 01-27-2000 06:54:15  
And they wanted to condem me for hauling a acetylene cylinder laying down. Cap on of course! This thread makes the WD-40 thing on a cutting torch sound like baby crap! Tom S.



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Jerry B

01-27-2000 16:52:26




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Propane tank for air storage in reply to Tom S., 01-27-2000 08:39:54  
No, not really. These are very similar possible & probable disasters waiting to happen. I wouldn't fool with ANY oil on an oxy/anything rig, nor stand around anywhere close to a less than code air installation. There are enough ways to get hurt in a heavy shop situation without tempting fate by doing something that has been proven to be dangerous. Of course there is always someone trying to prove the ASME wrong. That's what the Darwin award is given for.

Regards, Jerry

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Tom S.

01-28-2000 06:29:15




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Propane tank for air storage in reply to Jerry B, 01-27-2000 16:52:26  
I'll have to admit, sometimes I get careless, and in some peoples eyes, dangerous. But compressing a 500 gal tank with propane vapor! This is proving Darwin was right. That propane tank will hold residual with all that black tar crap like a gasoline tank before it's steamed out. Tom S.
Ask yourself why all those old tanks are sitting around the supply company and not being used for water or something.

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Mike

01-28-2000 21:35:45




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Propane tank for air storage in reply to Tom S., 01-28-2000 06:29:15  
My compressor tank is an old 100 lb. propane bottle. The tank was filled with water & the old end fitting cut out with a torch, then the tank was cleaned inside with detergent & hot water and all pipe inlets/outlets and legs were welded on. The tank was etched with Dupont Metal-Etch (phosphoric acid), dried & coated inside & outside with Rust-Oleum Damp Proof metal primer & baked between two kerosene heaters. It has been in use about 5 years at 90-100 lb. pressure with no problems. A 500 lb. tank would be more difficult to handle, your best bet may be to rent a steam cleaner or hi-pressure washer & thoroughly clean the tank's inside before doing anything else. Always use a reliable pressure relief valve!

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Roger Prosper

02-25-2000 22:48:01




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Propane tank for air storage in reply to Mike, 01-28-2000 21:35:45  
At our compressor shop, we won't touch anything built on a propane tank with a 10 foot pole. Or anything that has been welded on. It is not unheard of for fires to start inside air receivers due to build up oil residues and compressors running too hot. Just remember there are 8 to 10 atmospheres worth of oxygen inside your tank and a pump adding more all the time. Not nice if you mix in propane vapours.

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Tom S.

01-28-2000 06:26:54




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Propane tank for air storage in reply to Jerry B, 01-27-2000 16:52:26  
I'll have to admit, sometimes I get careless, and in some peoples eyes, dangerous. But compressing a 500 gal tank with propane vapor! This is proving Darwin was right. That propane tank will hold residual with all that black tar crap like a gasoline tank before it's steamed out. Tom S.



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Jerry B

01-27-2000 16:52:25




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Propane tank for air storage in reply to Tom S., 01-27-2000 08:39:54  
No, not really. These are very similar possible & probable disasters waiting to happen. I wouldn't fool with ANY oil on an oxy/anything rig, nor stand around anywhere close to a less than code air installation. There are enough ways to get hurt in a heavy shop situation without tempting fate by doing something that has been proven to be dangerous. Of course there is always someone trying to prove the ASME wrong. That's what the Darwin award is given for.

Regards, Jerry

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big fred

01-27-2000 10:46:09




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Propane tank for air storage in reply to Tom S., 01-27-2000 08:39:54  
Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't use a 500 Gal propane tank for anything but propane, and fail to understand the need for a 500 gallon air tank, but if you want to empty the vapors out, just point the hole to the bottom and wait. There isn't anything magic about propane, it's a gas and will obey the laws of physics just like water vapor, hydrogen or argon.



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Tom S.

01-27-2000 05:46:25




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 Re: Re: Propane tank for air storage in reply to Tim W, 01-27-2000 03:55:15  
I wonder what the 500 gal. WHOOSH will be like under a couple hundred PSI ? curious in TN. Tom S.



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ET

01-27-2000 19:32:58




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 Re: Re: Re: Propane tank for air storage in reply to Tom S., 01-27-2000 05:46:25  
All the propane tanks I have looked at have the working pressure stamped on them . I used a small Propane tank for years with no problems , ran 125 lbs pressure max in it as a portable air tank and as a compressor reserve tank. NO problems.



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Mike

01-26-2000 10:54:04




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 Re: Propane tank for air storage in reply to dan from Mi, 01-26-2000 06:31:58  
What in the hell are you doing that you need 500 gallons of storage? I have a 30 gallon compressor feeding 2 30 gallon tanks and can not even begin to run out of air at 190PSI. Mike



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dan from Mi

01-26-2000 18:21:40




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 Re: Re: Propane tank for air storage in reply to Mike, 01-26-2000 10:54:04  
And the story goes; I have a large compressor that requires 30hp electric (bought at auction for $35 in near new condition) that I plan on driving with a PTO and gearbox. I also have the relief valve from a gas driven compressor to control pressure. (Trade I have $0 in.) I'm hoping to end up with a unit that I can run once a week or so (Tight fittings and maybe a second 500 gal tank) to air up my garage. Total cost should be less than $200. Should also power a fair size sandblaster with the tractor hooked up.

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Mudcat49

01-26-2000 08:48:20




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 Re: Propane tank for air storage in reply to dan from Mi, 01-26-2000 06:31:58  
I have a friend who uses a used gas tank for air storage, no problem, you can wash out the smell



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dan from Mi

01-26-2000 18:36:21




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 Re: Re: Propane tank for air storage in reply to Mudcat49, 01-26-2000 08:48:20  
Thanks for the info. Any idea what your friend used to get rid of the smell, water? mineral spirits? Plan on starting this weekend.



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Dusty

01-26-2000 19:07:29




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 Re: Re: Re: Propane tank for air storage in reply to dan from Mi, 01-26-2000 18:36:21  
You should use a pressure switch, set a higher than the pressure relief valve, for an engine kill switch. The relief valve could fail, or the compressor might pump faster than the relief valve works.
Be sure you know what the pressure rating is on the tank. This can be DEADLEY.

Dusty



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Vern Graham

01-26-2000 22:32:49




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Propane tank for air storage in reply to Dusty, 01-26-2000 19:07:29  
AMEN ON THE DEADLY!!!!!
AN AIR TANK THAT SIZE IS A BOMB WAITING TO BLOW!!
Have the tank hydrostatic tested to 1.5 or 2.0 X the pressure you intend to operate it at. If it holds, you are probably ok.

AGAIN, DO NOT TEST WITH AIR UNLESSD IT IS AT LEAST 2 MILES FROM ANYTHING YOU HOLD DEAR TO YOU!!!



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Jerry B

01-27-2000 19:01:01




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Propane tank for air storage in reply to Vern Graham, 01-26-2000 22:32:49  
Vern:

Concept is perfect. Distance probably inadequate!

Jerry



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